How to tell no-NR early Lennon CD's

[Steven]

I read here that early Imagine and Mind Games have no noise reduction. Is this true of other John solo CD's, and does it apply to both US & UK CD's? Would the early "non Apple" CD's be the ones to look for then?

Steven

[Angel]

Well, I received "Imagine" in a "pre-release" handout to EMI employees and trust me, it was noise reduced. Same goes for the "Plastic Ono Band" disc. So-----???

[Joel Cairo]

Angel:

That's a little odd... I picked up one of the early "Imagine" CD pressings here in the US, and it was definitely **not** No-Noised... it was, in fact, brimming with lovely tape hiss. As was the EMI Gold CD version from Japan that I owned at about the same time. In point of fact, the two sounded identical, and I assumed they were. Unfortunately, I've since off-loaded both, so I can no longer back up this assertion with data-ring master numbers.

I **do** recall also reading in ICE in 1987 that the first pressings sold here in the US were not treated, and that the master was being replaced in production, because EMI felt that the NoNoised master sounded better. I believe they had also received a few letters from folks asking about the quality of the "hissy" master.

To answer the original poster's question, you can try to track down one of the Japanese Gold CDs from 1987 (though it'll probably cost you a pretty penny these days, assuming you can pry one from a Japanese collector's cold, dead hands-- which is about the only way that stuff comes to market), or possibly look for a US pressing of the old "Imagine" CD that was pressed in either Japan or West Germany... and has a lot of hiss. You'll know it when you hear it, believe me.

And you know, the hiss never really bothered me as much as what I felt was poor EQ on the disc... it **has** been 15 years since I've listened to it though...

-Kevin

[John Carsell]

Originally posted by Steven
I read here that early Imagine and Mind Games have no noise reduction. Is this true of other John solo CD's, and does it apply to both US & UK CD's? Would the early "non Apple" CD's be the ones to look for then?

Steven

As far as Mind Games is concerned, The UK issue is NOT no-noised, where the US copies are (same goes for Walls and Bridges and Some Time in New York City as well.)

The UK issues of all these were released well before the US issues before the dreaded no noised masters were finished:mad:

[lennonology]

For most of the Lennon titles, I have both the original UK issues (many of which were pressed in Japan) and their subsequent US counterparts. Here's a quick rundown:

Live Peace - All countries use Rob Stevens re-mix with some of the worst no-noise artifacts I've ever heard on a commercial CD. 4 tracks appear on the 1990 "Lennon" box with the original mixes intact - their first and only CD appearance.

JL/POB - All countries released simultaneously and used a no-noised tape. Was originally to have been issued in the UK prior to the May '88 release but was pulled.

Imagine - Original UK issue c.Summer '87 was not no-noised, the US edition was.

STINYC - I only have the original UK. I don't believe this was no-noised. Does anyone really want to hear this record?

MG - Original UK from Summer 1987 was not no-noised, the Spring '88 US edition was treated.

W&B - UK was not no-noised, the US was.

RNR - UK was not no-noised, the US was.

Shaved Fish - Original US (Mfd in Japan) was immediately pulled from the market. The re-issued US used a different tape, but was no-noised.

DF - The original Geffen was Mfd. in Germany and not treated, I think the 2001 re-master was tweaked a little. Best version of this is hands down the Mo-Fi.

Chip Madinger
co-author 'Eight Arms To Hold You: The Solo Beatles Compendium'
www.8-arms.com

[Vivaldinization]

Are the differences really that huge, though? The domestic Walls and Bridges CD is somewhat dull (and has some nasty digital clicks), but doesn't have NR artifacts, per se. Are the UK versions very different? (and if they are, where's the best place to acquire 'em?)

-D


PS: Love the book...dunno how I'm EVER gonna get that thing home from college, though.

[Paul L.]

Chip,
Thanks for your info. Your Eight Arms To Hold You book is amazing.

As to your question about Sometime in New York City: The music to "Angela" is pretty--that's the best thing for me on the album.

Maybe you know the answer to this Q: I was wondering why Yoko didn't credit Lewisohn for all of his tape research for the John Lennon Anthology? Is it known whether Yoko has a problem with Lewisohn?

Also, do you know anything about plans to put out Harrison's unreleased last album and/or the box set of outtakes he was talking about in that one interview.

Thanks.

[lennonology]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by David Goodwin
[B]Are the differences really that huge, though? The domestic Walls and Bridges CD is somewhat dull (and has some nasty digital clicks), but doesn't have NR artifacts, per se. Are the UK versions very different? (and if they are, where's the best place to acquire 'em?)

There are some slight differences, all of the trainspotting type stuff is detailed in the book. The US editions tend to fade out a little earlier and some of the fades collapse into a "flangy" mess or have a "stairstep effect". If I recall correctly the original UK Imagine has a bit of George's count-in on 'Oh My Love' (this was on the LP as well) while this was trimmed from the domestic issue. As for sound, I haven't A/B'd them in a couple of years. Overall, I think the UK's are just a little clsoer to the truth, since they weren't processed. However, as is the case with the majority of John's catalog the (sonic) truth isn't very pretty sometimes.

As for finding copies, that could be tough. I'd just suggest the usual outlets (i.e. Ebay)

Chip

[FabFourFan]

Originally posted by pas10003
STINYC - I only have the original UK. I don't believe this was no-noised. Does anyone really want to hear this record?Yes, me! Otherwise, why would I have a dozen copies of it??? ;)

[lennonology]

Originally posted by Paul L.

Maybe you know the answer to this Q: I was wondering why Yoko didn't credit Lewisohn for all of his tape research for the John Lennon Anthology? Is it known whether Yoko has a problem with Lewisohn?

Also, do you know anything about plans to put out Harrison's unreleased last album and/or the box set of outtakes he was talking about in that one interview.

Thanks. [/B]

If I remember correctly, there was a good explanation as to why Rob Stevens was used in lieu of Lewisohn - I think it was in MOJO's review of the Lennon Anthology box.

I do not have any information regarding an unreleased "last album". The newswire article which broke the story was cut and pasted together from several sources, one of which was a 2-3 year old Jim Keltner interview. The box set quotes were from an equally ancient interview with Timothy White for Rolling Stone. So as far as I know, there is no "new" reliable information regarding any future output from George. As far as his re-issue program goes, we can hope that he had everything in order, but in reality I don't hold much hope that anything more than Bangla Desh and perhaps Material World were completed. A forum member posted the other day that they saw Bangla Desh at Circuit City, but I have a feeling that it was probably the 1991 release, which is still in print. However, I do have hope that his back catalog will get what is rapidly becoming standard treatment, i.e. remastering with bonus tracks.

Chip

[Paul L.]

Chip,

I have the Mojo from November 1998 with the short article by Lewisohn.

For those who don't have this article, he talks about how EMI commissioned him to listen to all 477 reels of Lennon studio outtakes, which Lewisohn did from 1991 to 1993.

Then he made a compilation.

Then the project ground to a halt in 1994 just as test CDs were made.

In 1998 the set comes out with no mention of Lewisohn (or maybe a small thanks). Yoko has mysteriously become the producer of the box ($$$$/ego) and someone else gets credit for tape research (Rob Stevens, I guess).

I was hoping you might know the real story. I'm assuming Lewisohn knows a lot more than he feels is appropriate to reveal. (HINT: Initials Y.O.)

But thanks anyway!

********

On Harrison: For those who don't know, Keltner talked about that he had added drums to pre-existing unreleased Harrison tracks.

It would be nice to get some bonus tracks. But I think remastering will only harm things. As bad as the original CD of All Things Must Pass is, I like it more than the remaster.

[Joel Cairo]

Well, the story I recall reading regarding Mr. Lewisohn and Yoko having a falling out mentioned that Mark had allowed a friend to accompany him on a listening session for one of the projects involving the Fabs (don't remember if it was said to be a solo project, or a review of an actual Beatles session)... Yoko found out about it, was **mightily** displeased, and Mark suddenly found himself on the outside of the glass, so to speak.

I wish I could supply details on the source of this, but it's been some time since I read it... it is interesting to note though, that I don't know if he's done any official work connected with the group since that point in time.

-Kevin

[FabFourFan]

Originally posted by Joel Cairo
... regarding Mr. Lewisohn ... I don't know if he's done any official work connected with the group since that point in time.Mark Lewisohn has a credit in The Beatles 1.

[Paul L.]

Thanks, Joel. If that story is true, that's a pretty tough punishment.

[vinylrec]

Originally posted by Paul L.
As bad as the original CD of All Things Must Pass is, I like it more than the remaster.

Well, people keep asking EMI (or what’s left of EMI) to remaster the Beatles catalog. Can you imagine how that would sound? If EMI can’t produce anything decent sounding now, they certainly can’t produce a decent Beatles remaster…

[Paul L.]

Exactly.

Now is not the right time. If it is done relatively soon, it's not good, because it won't be done right and it may be only a one-shot deal. I'd much rather EMI demonstrated some good sonic practice first, and then have them remaster.

[Steven]

Since the early UK CD's only seem to be slightly better, and hard to come by, what about the EMI Centenary LP pressings?

Probably the original standard LP's are the best, but good luck finding them in Near Mint condition, I've bought too many "NM" ebay records that just weren't.

Steven

[Steven]

Is there a visual way to differentiate original pressing UK CD's from later ones?

Steven

[lennonology]

Original UK pressing vs later UK pressings or original UK pressings vs. US pressings? I wouldn't have a clue on original UKs vs. later UKs except that several of my original UKs were made in Japan. The first US issues all bear the legend "Made in USA", have different label graphics, and contain "JAX" in the matrix, signifying that they were manufactured at the Jacksonville, IL facility.

[Steven]

Original UK CD pressing vs later UK CD pressings

[mcow1]

Originally posted by Steven
Probably the original standard LP's are the best, but good luck finding them in Near Mint condition, I've bought too many "NM" ebay records that just weren't.

Steven

Amen to that!

[Evan]

Originally posted by Joel Cairo
To answer the original poster's question, you can try to track down one of the Japanese Gold CDs from 1987 (though it'll probably cost you a pretty penny these days, assuming you can pry one from a Japanese collector's cold, dead hands-- which is about the only way that stuff comes to market

Also, you could look for the regular Japanese pressing that came out at the same time. It has tape hiss and the sound is more “natural”. I compared it to a newer version with the dreaded breath o’death Nonoise myself. :eek:
It is on EMI records. No Apple logo. Inner ring: CP32-5451 1B1 TO. It has a block on the back to the lower left corner with the following: X~88.7.21 O. 7.22
"How do you sleep" is listed as a mono track on the disc. I do not have a gold disc to compare it to. Mine cost me about $15 dollars. Considerably cheaper than the gold disc. I see them every now and again in stores here in Tokyo. Hope this helps

[Joseph]

I just picked up a "non-traditional" release called Imagine The Alternative.
Listening to these alternative versions made me realize how much
no-noise really means "no life".

Oh well at least I now have a great sounding Imagine. The versions are amazing as well!