After how many plays does a new lp really lose fidelity

[spotlightkid]

After how many plays does a lp truly lose the hi end frequencies?

[Todd Fredericks]

According to a very, very snobby salesman at Park Avenue Audio in NYC, 6 plays! He thought anyone into playing vinyl is insane. That was last year, maybe he's in another line of business now? If he still works there, I'd love to have Tom Port fly to New York and have a conversation with him. We could charge for tickets!

IMO, it depends on the quality of playback, the vinyl, and TLC. I have a lot of old DJ pressings from the 50's/60's and my dad said some of the popular tracks were played zillions of times. I've cleaned them with Disc Doctor and in most cases they still sound superb...


Todd

[spotlightkid]

yes send Tom there to grill him on the world of vinyl.

[Bob Lovely]

All,

Technically--one, but with a high quality playback device, properly set-up, wear can be minimized and full fidelity enjoyed for many, many plays.

Bob

[KLM]

I recall hearing that some lps that use the JVC super vinyl actually require several plays for the vinyl to break in and therefore sound better/quieter over time.

[Jeffrey]

Originally posted by KLM
I recall hearing that some lps that use the JVC super vinyl actually require several plays for the vinyl to break in and therefore sound better/quieter over time.

Hi,

I have found this to be true w/ some of my Mofi goin' out @ 5 plays.

Jeffrey

[Gary]

I've heard that you should 'rest' your vinyl for 24 hours between plays.

Is this true?

[Jeffrey]

Originally posted by Gary
I've heard that you should 'rest' your vinyl for 24 hours between plays.

Is this true?

Hi Gary,

My wife told me 24 months:(

Jeffrey

[Todd Fredericks]

My wife told me to keep playing the records forever and then walked out the door, forever...

Todd

[ArneW]

I do stick to the rule that says "never ever play a track for a second time immediately" because someone said the grooves reach several 100 degrees and may be damaged by the needle if not given enough time to cool down between plays. And yes, some of my often-played audiophile LPs with very high dynamics have lost fidelity (Rachmaninoff, "Symphonic Dances", Analogue Productions). But there are also some discs that have lost nothing in almost 20 years ("Sinatra Swings"). I'd love to know how tracking force affects the life span of an LP, though. In the old days, my Audio Linear / SME / Elac combination had a tracking weight of only 1.3g or so, with the Well Tempered / Denon 103 it's about 2.2g.

Arne

[Sckott]

It's so simple, people. If your cart tracks light (less than 2g) and your arm is mounted properly, there should be no way that playing the same side 20 times in a row would make any difference.

Tracking accuracy means a lot, you see. It doesn't take much to get it right. Hell, for the most part, it's about getting every sonic nuance 1st, keeping damage control a very distant second.

Now, if your's was a ceramic playback cart, tracking at 6-8 grams (or something crazy) Yes, you could cut the record to damage within 10-11 consecutive plays, albeit marginal. Hey, if you've found yourself in the SH forum, you should have a very nice vinyl playback table. Not to be a snob, but run with the pack!

So, for those of you with Rega or VPI or even SOTA setups with a decent arm and cart, play on!

[Humorem]

I once did an experiment. Lasted a record, then played it as a test disc, the same 3 songs again and again for weeks while I was testing it, with my friend George from San Diego. Carole Kidd.

Somewhere between 300-400 plays later, it was now mint minus or so. Sounded amazing. Every bit as good? Who can say?

The amount of fidelity records will lose in normal play over the course of your lifetime will be so close to zero it cannot be measured by man or machine.

Surface noise? Hey, that's life! Deal with it.

I recently spent some time adjusting my VTA with a record by Eddie Harris. Last track, one quarter inch from the label, he lets go and blows the loudest note on the record. Louder than any Van Gelder sax ever recorded by a long shot. Way loud I tell you!

Played it easily thirty times, one after another, no "resting the vinyl". Inner grooves, toughest test in the world. Dynamic burst there? Look out!

No breakup, no distortion, no loss of fidelity, maybe a tick or two that wasn't there before, but hey, thirty plays! Most people wouldn't play that record thirty times in their whole life.

Roughly $8,000 this front end cost me. 50 hours set up time. What did I get for my money? I got to play that record right! And a bunch more. Money well spent. I have a Triplanar arm coming next week. $3200. It's worth it if it sounds good, to me anyway. What else can you buy that gives you that much pleasure for $3000?

Don't answer that.

TP:)

[Sam]

Tom, when you said you "lasted the record" in your test, did you mean you applied Last Record preservative? Some have said it "changes" the sound as this chemical is now between the grooves and your needle. What's your thoughts?

[Sam]

And, Tom Port, is that lady in the picture your wife?? If she is, there's no way you should have ANY time to listen to music other than making that woman sing the "Ava Maria!"

[Angel]

Originally posted by Sam
And, Tom Port, is that lady in the picture your wife??

No, that's Tom. :)

[Humorem]

My friend Pincus brought over an old record last night with that girl on the cover and I just liked it. I have gray hair and lack pearls. Also, I'm a man.

Yes, I like the "old" last, which is nothing but Freon TF. It does change the sound. Disc Doctor over it and you have the best of all possible worlds.

TP

[Sam]

whooooo. It does change the sound?? And you use and like it???!! This can't be coming from Tom Port??? Really, why would you use something that "changes" (for the better I hope) the sound? :eek:

[count.d]

I think the amount of times you can play an lp is underestimated by most people.

I have lp's I was playing for 3-4 years (15 years ago) on something as basic as a Sony deck which was not specifically set up and now on my hi-end Linn deck there is no deterioration.

I also recently have played a part of a track many times over and over trying to see if the stylus would wear away an annoying tick. It didn't and there was no change of fidelity at all.

I'm extremely fussy and listen for any increase in background noise or loss of detail.

I really can't imagine claims of the vinyl melting when being played, the tracking force is far too light.

[Humorem]

Originally posted by Sam
It does change the sound? And you use and like it? This can't be coming from Tom Port? Really, why would you use something that "changes" (for the better I hope) the sound?
Everything can change everything I'm afraid. Follow my instructions and all will be well. Or follow your own path and see where you end up. I do the work and advise my customers accordingly.

If you want to follow me, you have to play pinball.

Tommy can you hear me? Yes I can!
TP:)

[Richard Feirstein]

If you have too little stylus pressure for a given record modulation you could get grove damage. Very poor anti-skating adjustments can cause grove wall wear. Playing a record with dirt on it or on the stylus tip can cause grove damage. A worn or broken stylus tip can damage the grove.

But a good cartridge with a good stylus set with adequate pressure and anti-skating and properly aligned, with the record clean and tidy, should last a long long time. Biggest problem was the crap vinyl often used to make records back in the good old days. :rolleyes:

[Humorem]

"Freon? CFC?"

Yes, promise me you won't use more than a gallon. At $600 a gallon I'm guessing you won't.

It is illegal I admit. When it comes to records, a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

And how's your electric car running these days, mate?
TP

[Paul Chang]

Originally posted by Humorem
"Freon? CFC?"

Yes, promise me you won't use more than a gallon. At $600 a gallon I'm guessing you won't.

It is illegal I admit. When it comes to records, a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

And how's your electric car running these days, mate?
TP Electric car? You must be talking about the other guy. I ride a bike to work in the morning and ride it home after work. Then I ride on it to propel the generator that powers my stereo equipment and home appliances. See, I'm so environmentally conscious that I don't even have a lead acid battery. Hey Tom, my bicycle-propelled generator sounds better than your batteries any time. ;)

[Mike V]

Illegal? Hmm.

I can see it now - "your honor, the proper tonal balance of my vast LP collection was at stake! I had no other choice!"