LPs from a digital source that kill their CD counterparts?!

[ArneW]

Hi,

almost every vinyl lover can name a few LPs from digital masters that sound superior to what has been released on CD. But which digitally recorded LP releases absolutely blow their CD counterparts away? I'm not talking of an "audiophile" 180g release versus a standard issue CD here but of the majority of the releases from, let's say 1985-90, when the major companies still did both on a regular basis.

There are two that come to my mind:

1) Dexter Gordon: "The Other Side Of Round Midnight" (Blue Note). The LP sounds almost analog with a beautiful, smooth, natural sounding saxophone. Lots of spatial information and "breath of life". The CD is, well, just a CD. Not bad, but in this case inferior by a great margin.

2) André Previn/LSO: "Images/L'après midi d'un faune [Debussy]" (EMI ASD) One of the earliest EMI digital recordings. Probably the most "analog" strings I've ever heard from a digital recording. Sadly, the CD does not preserve "one bit" of it. A/B-ing is like switching between two different performances.

Arne

[TommyTunes]

One immediately comes to mind Eric Clapton's Unplugged. The vinyl is definitely better IMO (in case Humorem is reading).

[joelee]

Shaver "Tramp on Your Street".
The classic records vinyl release blows away the cd release.

[Humorem]

Originally posted by TommyTunes
One immediately comes to mind Eric Clapton's Unplugged. The vinyl is definitely better IMO (in case Humorem is reading).

Lurking about as usual, and in full agreement.
TP

[Ronflugelguy]

UNPLUGGED, I'll third that motion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[MikeyH]

Originally posted by ArneW

2) André Previn/LSO: "Images/L'après midi d'un faune [Debussy]" (EMI ASD) One of the earliest EMI digital recordings. Probably the most "analog" strings I've ever heard from a digital recording. Sadly, the CD does not preserve "one bit" of it. A/B-ing is like switching between two different performances.
[/B]

The EMI and Decca (LDR in the US) early digital recordings were made on custom equipment, way before the advent of 'digital standards' and the limitations of CD. This was when those companies had engineering staff and made their own stuff.

In addition, neither co. initially had any editing capability, making these disks mostly single performances per movement. The Decca only had two channels, I recall, and so they had to go back to really engineering the microphone placement. I think all these disks compare pretty well with their just-before analogue counterparts. I'm particularly fond of the Dutoit Ravel orchestral works on Decca, which sound better on original LP than on the converted CD.

Mike

[petzi]

Originally posted by MikeyH


The EMI and Decca (LDR in the US) early digital recordings were made on custom equipment,...
Mike

Some info about early DECCA digital equipment is here:

http://www.mancini99.freeserve.co.uk/Decca_1.html

[RDK]

Originally posted by Ronflugelguy
UNPLUGGED, I'll third that motion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

Damn! And here i thought the cd sounded pretty darn good. Gonna have to track me down a copy of this one as it's a favorite...

[McIntosh]

Originally posted by RDK


Damn! And here i thought the cd sounded pretty darn good. Gonna have to track me down a copy of this one as it's a favorite...

When you find it let me know. That's a must for me....Elusive Disc lists it as out of stock, and I had really bad luck with them on out of stock merch....no updates, no answers other than Could be a while type answers.....BUT I NEED THIS ONE !!

[ArneW]

Now that page about the Decca digital recorder was a wealth of information. Thanks a lot for posting this! Think I'm gonna sit through a couple of my favourite SXDLs tonite. BTW, even today these are still going "for a song". Nobody wants them nowadays because they're digital.

Arne

[petzi]

Originally posted by ArneW
Now that page about the Decca digital recorder was a wealth of information. Thanks a lot for posting this! Think I'm gonna sit through a couple of my favourite SXDLs tonite. BTW, even today these are still going "for a song". Nobody wants them nowadays because they're digital.

Arne

On a side note, DECCA CDs usually sound very good, regardless of whether they were analog or digital recordings. But avoid DECCA re-remasters from analog tapes when they were released after about 1997. They re-release some of their catalog that had been digitally remastered before, and apply noise reduction now, CEDAR I believe. The re-remasters are awful. The older remasters (without noise-reduction) are usually the better choice.

I vote for some Georg Solti remastered by Steve :-)

[Humorem]

Can anyone name one that doesn't?

Maybe you can name one that doesn't kill it, but if the standard is "beat it", then I can't think of one.
TP

[Uncle Al]

Well, this is a little side bar to the topic, not ON topic - but related:

I have a Creedence lp called "Chooglin" - a single record retrospective of some of their longer cuts. It sports a "digitally mastered" banner on the front cover, and to the best of my rather faulty recollection, it preceeeded home digital (or at least CD's) by a handfull of years. I gave it a spin for the first time in many years the other night, and damned if "Born on the Bayou" doesn't sound a hell of a lot better here than I've ever heard it on a Fantasy CD (never heard any SH Creedence, vinyl or digital - maybe I will pick up a new release - maybe I'll win one of those forum contests - lol).

The most impressive thing compared to a Fantasy CD is the warm bottom end - with no apparent loss in the high end. Anyone else have this issue?

[Dan C]

I'll add Peter Gabriel's fourth album, 'Security'. I gave the CD away after finding a good vinyl copy.

And Paul Simon's 'Hearts and Bones' is far better on vinyl, from what I remember.

Telarc LPs seemed to have an edge over their early CD's. Some of them are really amazing.

It's been a while since I compared the CDs and LPs though. And I have a totally different system now...;)
Dan C

[trhunnicutt]

Tracy Chapman - Tracy Chapman
Donald Fagen - Nightfly
Clapton - Unplugged
Jewel - Pieces of You
Sting's early records (his cd's don't sound up to snuff)
Some of the new Soul, like Erykah Badu, India Arie, Maxwell...

As I stated in a thread a while back on just this subject... For me, there isn't a piece of music which had a digital master, which sounded better on cd than on vinyl. I believe it's due to the fact that you perform the D-A conversion at a higher rate before it's cut on vinyl. For instance, a 24/48 DAT or 24/96 DAT can get converted at that rate, whereas Redbook CD always gets downsampled to 16/44, losing bits and info. Just my opinion.

Setup was similar in price, using the same cables:

Accuphase DP75V vs SME 10/10 with Ruby 2 H cartiridge through a CJ Premier 15 phono preamp. Spectral preamp and poweramp. MIT oracle interconnects. Sonus Faber Amati Homage. MIT power conditioning. Dedicated 20amp outlets.

[ArneW]

Hi,

I just came across this piece on digital recording, LP vs. CD and multichannel miking; quite interesting.



Arne

[trhunnicutt]

I don't know about "completely destroy" their cd counterpart, but these labels sound significantly better IMHO on vinyl than digital, and almost all of the masters are digital:

- Windham Hill (especially those pressed by Stan Ricker, not the later Lp resissues. Look in the wax for SR1 or SR2)

- GRP

- Narada.

Simply phenomenal sound from a digital source. Especially the Windham Hill / Stan Ricker.

TRH

[spot1019]

Laurie Anderson - Strange Angels

I get goosebumps just thinking about it

[Humorem]

Originally posted by trhunnicutt
For me, there isn't a piece of music which had a digital master, which sounded better on cd than on vinyl. I believe it's due to the fact that you perform the D-A conversion at a higher rate before it's cut on vinyl.
I believe it's because vinyl stores more information more correctly than any digital medium ever devised. That's what I believe.
TP

[Jeffrey]

Originally posted by Humorem
Can anyone name one that doesn't?

Maybe you can name one that doesn't kill it, but if the standard is "beat it", then I can't think of one.
TP

Hi Tom,

Haven't done an a/b but the Dire Straits BIA & Communique lp's would have to really rock to beat/kill the original cd releases. Have ya done that comparison?

Another view,
Jeffrey

[lukpac]

Originally posted by Humorem
I believe it's because vinyl stores more information more correctly than any digital medium ever devised. That's what I believe.

How can an LP taken from a digital master tape store information more "correctly" than the master tape itself?

[Grant]

Originally posted by lukpac


How can an LP taken from a digital master tape store information more "correctly" than the master tape itself?

Exactly!

[Todd Fredericks]

I think Tom was refering to the difference between digital and vinyl "software" derived from a master...

Todd

[Jeffrey]

Originally posted by Todd Fredericks
I think Tom was refering to the difference between digital and vinyl "software" derived from a master...

Todd

Hi Todd,

Yes, but the thread references a digital source (master).

Jeffrey

[Mike V]

Originally posted by Jeffrey


Hi Tom,

Haven't done an a/b but the Dire Straits BIA & Communique lp's would have to really rock to beat/kill the original cd releases. Have ya done that comparison?

Another view,
Jeffrey

Hi Jeffrey,

I hate my early press CD of Communique. It has none, and I mean none, of the life of my early LP pressing. I haven't listened in a while, but tone aside, the LP has a world more depth in terms of soundstage. It breathes, where the CD lacks almost all of that feeling. I think a very good mastering on CD would blow away my pressing (too much noise), but for now I'd either find a cheap original LP or go for the Simply Vinyl. It's supposed to be good (but expensive).