Old videotape & color TV questions, & How Zippy got her name

[David R. Modny]

Did anyone catch this on PBS over the weekend? I'm not sure if it was a national thing or just part of a local fund drive. But, it was the Judy-Frank-Dean special from '62.

Anyway, Sid Luft colorized this. I was just wondering if this was part of a series and what could have possibly driven him to colorize. From what I saw, it looked like its original source was B&W videotape (vs. kinescope), yet it was very strange to see the Judy, Dean, Frank segment like this.

On a related note, any videophiles out there have any idea as to what may have been the FIRST TV show or special ever shot on COLOR videotape (not film)? I've seen an Everlys' clip from the Tennessee Ernie Ford show that was shot on 2 inch color tape...from 1958! (I had previously just seen a B&W kinescope of this same clip). Weren't some of the Fred Astaire early TV specials shot on color tape too?...even if they weren't necessarily broadcast that way?

[Steve Hoffman]

I thought the Astaire stuff was the oldest surviving complete show, but collectors have stuff out there even older I bet.

The Judy stuff was from 2" monochrome tape.

Judy exists in color from this era on the vacuum tube color Andy Williams show. Andy has his 2" color tapes. Beautiful NBC color!

Mikey is the expert on this stuff. Maybe he can chime in!

[Joel Cairo]

One of the Astaire specials is, I believe, the oldest survivng (mostly) complete program . It has aired on the Disney channel a couple of times, though I've somehow managed to miss it each time.

It was lovingly restored by Ed Reitan and his UCLA crew, though small portions had to patched with B&W kinescope footage, due to tape deterioriation. I believe the restorationists were even given an Emmy for their work.

The Judy Garland special that you mentioned is available on a budget-level Frank Sinatra DVD, too, which you can find for about $10.00... as I recall, the reason I read for the colorization was that Sid was trying to sell it as part of a TV package, and they only wanted color material (since TV execs swear that nobody watches anything in B&W!!).

[You know, sorta how record execs say that **nobody** listens to mono records] :D

The real treats that have emerged on DVD recently for all of us classic TV fans are the series of discs from Pioneer of Judy Garland's CBS variety series, which are mastered and restored from the original B&W 2" video masters-- they're nothing short of breathtaking, and are the standard to which all such releases should be compared.

Two other quirky titles come to mind, as well, Goodtimes has only recently stopped distributing the 1960 Mary Martin version of "Peter Pan" (again from 2" tape, this time in COLOR), and the last Howdy Doody show, from 9/24/60 was also released as part of a series by Image Entertainment, mastered from the surviving color tape. In Howdy's case, it is the only surviving **taped** episode of the show, the rest having been lost in a fire in an East Coast NBC storage facility.

And by the way, this is a great place to say, if you know of any collectors or retired engineers that are sitting on such material, PLEASE, PLEASE have them get in touch with the proper organizations to insure that their material is preserved (and if necessary) transferred to a more modern format, in order that it may be able to accessed in the future... the number of machines available for these sort of transfers is sadly dwindling, and once they're gone, the material will essentially be lost for good!

(end of sermon)



-Kevin

[ArneW]

Hi,

the colourized version of the Norman Jewison-directed TV Special /w Frank & Dean has been commercially available on VHS cassette for years. I bought my copy in London in 1994 or 95, I think. I love this show, but the colourization is unbearable indeed: Even turning down the color until it's completely black and white will not do the trick because you still see those strange geometric artifacts in Judy's face. Aargh!

[David R. Modny]

What's the approx. date on that first Astaire special? I saw the documentary on the specials and it just blew me away. So cool to see true color tape from that era!

Like I mentioned, I nearly fell over when I saw that Everlys clip from '58 in beautiful, saturated true 2-inch color. The original kinescope was released on video on the Everlys "Rock and Roll Oddesey" documentary from the 80's. I just happened to luckily catch the color clip on a tribute to Tennessee Ernie Ford on TV...shortly before he died a few years back. Stunning!


It is sad to think that Luft felt he needed to colorize the Judy special. I mean, single-tube cameras flaring whenever they hit a light, the lighting shadows, etc etc...that's the attraction of this stuff in B&W. Computer painting it with watercolors just kills everything!

[Gary]

But isn't the B&W still available? Are they not CHOOSING to show the colourized (notice the correct spelling? ;) ) versions of this show?

[wvk3]

Don't know if anyone else saw this, but back in December the Trio cable channel ran a Frank Sinatra Christmas special with Bing Crosby guest starring. It was a half hour and in color, although I don't know if it was on tape or film. From the look of things and the dialogue, it seemed to be from around the time they made High Society.

[ArneW]

This 1957 Christmas Special was filmed in both b&w and color for a possible distribution in theatres - See Trio Tv's web site, it still has information on this very subject:

http://www.triotv.com/pressrelease/pressrel11.html

Arne

[RetroSmith]

[Mikey is the expert on this stuff. Maybe he can chime in! [/B][/QUOTE]

>>>>Awww...thanks Steve!! I try!!
Heres what I can tell you:

Anyway, the first NETWORK Broadcast to use color videotape was in fact "An Evening Wih Fred Astaire" in 1958.

There were some experimental local broadcasts before this using color videotape by station WMAQ in Chicago, but they were really for the techs to test the equipment rather than for entertainment.

Also done on color video were: THE GEORGE BURNS SHOW (1960); ESTHER WILLIAMS AT CYPRESS GARDENS (1960); two 1959 color specials starring Gene Kelly; and of course, the famous Nixon-Khrushchev debate taped in Moscow in 1959

ALL these, WMAQ and the Astaire show used an early, short lived version of color videorecording called "Low Band" Heterodyne.

It worked, but not very well, and the thing was, you really couldnt copy the tapes! The generational loss of the low band system was horrible, so if you needed to use a dub on the air, it would look like hell.

Thats why color videotaping sort of dissapeared until the early '60s when High Band Hetero was introduced, which solved all sorts of technical problems and paved the way for color TV to take off.

NBC generally had the best color technology, because they were very big on it and spent the money for research. Some NBC color videos from 1965 look so good its unbelievable. Thier mantra was that color videotape should be soft like technicolor film was.
I personally, love that look.

Hope this helps, guys!!

[David R. Modny]

Which leads to my next question. Where does this Tennessee Ernie Ford with the Everlys thing fall into the larger scheme of things? Like I said, it's supposed to date from '58 (perhaps '59 at the absolute earliest) Was this some kind of local experiment, possibly? I'm not sure if his show was local or national, or where it was even broadcast from originally.

Nonetheless, if anyone else has ever seen this (the non-kinescope version of course), or has a copy of it, I'd love to hear more!

[David R. Modny]

Originally posted by David R. Modny
Which leads to my next question. Where does this Tennessee Ernie Ford with the Everlys thing fall into the larger scheme of things? Like I said, it's supposed to date from '58 (perhaps '59 at the absolute earliest)


Stop the presses! Boy, did I get this one wrong. I did some net research and found that this episode actually dates from April 5, 1961! Guess I was off by a couple of years....lol!

Makes more sense now!

[David R. Modny]

http://www.ernieford.com/TEF-Everlys.jpg

[RetroSmith]

Since we are on the subject of early TV, for those who havent heard.

A kinescope of Elvis Presley on TV in 1955 has been confirmed.

This predates his "Stage Show" appearance by a full year.
the 1955 shot is Elvis as a guest on the "Roy Orbison Show" in (i think) Abilene , TX. He sings one song, which is unknown.

THATS something I would like to see!!

[Joel Cairo]

With all due respect to Mikey, here's a direct link to Ed Reitan's web pages, which give an incredible amount of information regarding the history of color broadcasting:

http://www.novia.net/~ereitan/

And I can't remeber offhand if Mr. Reitan mentions it, but there was at least one experimental live broadcast by CBS of "What's My Line" in the mid-50's... a B&W kinescope of that program still exists.

-Kevin

[Steve Hoffman]

Kevin,

Ed R. really needs to get off his butt and update his website. Can you ask him to?

There is SO much more information that he knows about, and so many great stories....

How do we motivate him?

[RetroSmith]

hey buddy, I'm impressed at Ed site!!

thats the good part, there is always more to learn about the history of TV.

thanks for the link.

[Joel Cairo]

Yeah, I know, Steve.. prior to this last one, it had been about 2 years since his previous update, I think.

About motivating him, though, I don't know... what works for you guys in the music biz? Is it the liquor, fast cars or all of the women throwing themselves at your feet? :D

-Kevin

[Steve Hoffman]

Well, all of the above. But enough about me.

Ed just needs to feel the need to share his hobby with others. Even Tom Port, who rarely gives away a trade secret, can type pages and pages. So could Ed.... Sigh. Oh well.

He won't return my emails (probably doesn't even know my name), but several friends of mine who are in to old color TV's (like I am) know him well. No one can seem to get him motivated.

[RetroSmith]

You know, Steve...what I'd like to know is this:

If one could find an RCA CT-100 in working condition, I wonder how its "technicolor" color guns would reproduce todays TV broadcasts.

I love the "technicolor look" and wouldnt it be a kick to see "Everybody Loves Raymond" that way?


Mikey

[Gary]

How about fame and riches, as well as a service to humanity by documenting history?

Get him to write a book - with a 'ghost writer' if needed! That way he does not have to do the labourous writing.

You're close to Hollywood! Sic a 'ghost writer' on him! Ok, maybe it does not quite work that way but work with the idea!

And BTW, you should also start on your autobiography - or keep a journal or something. It'll be fun for you to do in your retirement. Humoreum, are you listening, too?

But I'd hope you open up the Steve Hoffman School of Remastering, first! ;)

Whaddya think?

:D

[Steve Hoffman]

Funny, Gary!

BTW, Ed's writing a book about Color TV history, has been for years. All he needs to do is copy some of it onto his site.

Sigh.

[Steve Hoffman]

Originally posted by mikey5967
You know, Steve...what I'd like to know is this:

If one could find an RCA CT-100 in working condition, I wonder how its "technicolor" color guns would reproduce todays TV broadcasts.

I love the "technicolor look" and wouldnt it be a kick to see "Everybody Loves Raymond" that way?


Mikey

Well, it's not that easy I'm afraid. Why? Well, most shows shot today are too dark and muted to look good on the old sets.

I have a 1963 RCA 21" (we call her Zippy), a (still new in the box) 1964 Packard Bell 21" (Buster), and a great Danish Modern RCA 21" (Nigel) from '65. Check out this shot of the exact same Danish Modern set (second TV set down from top):

http://www.kingoftheroad.net/KARD_html/kard4.html

I play the two RCA's all the time, and here is what looks good on them:

News shows, Entertainment Tonight type shows and most video. Very Technicolor!

Ever notice (as you are flipping the old cable dial) that the "old" shows like The Brady bunch pop out at you? They are so brightly over-lit. Well, on an old TV set, that extra brightness looks JUST RIGHT. So, the reruns of Bonanza, All In The Family, Love Boat look great! I mean really great. But when the "dark" stuff comes on like "Law And Order" or "The West Wing", forget it...

[RetroSmith]

Wow Steve!!

That is one beautiful TV!! Boy, TVs are so UGLY today compared to when I was a kid.

I'll bet BONANZA looks just AWESOME on your set.

Ahhh...the good old days!!

Mikey

[John Oteri]

Wow. Great thread.

I never really thought about it, but I guess that "vacuum tube color video" is as magical as "vacuum tube sound".

Those old Andy Williams shows I've seen on PBS from the 1960's with the pastel colors are indeed beautiful. But I bet on Steve's RCA "Zippy", Packard Bell "Buster" and Danish Moderne "Nigel" they are truly reproduced the way they were meant to be seen.

:)

[RDK]

I just love the fact that Steve gives names to his TV sets!!! :)