MOFI CSNY "Deja Vu" Worth the Money?

[Ben]

This baby is currently floating around eBay for about $150....can I hear the board members informed opinions on this release?

I have the original Atlantic issue. Goldmine lists the MOFI's value at Near Mint / $200.

Great album - the CD is very so, so...is the Mobile Fidelity vinyl an improvement worth investing in....?


Thanks in advance....and, as always.....best to the board!

Ben

[spotlightkid]

Ben i have the Mo-Fi and the price is about right.great sonics on this one-if you have a good stereo system get it.

[KLM]

To be honest I have never heard the MFSL pressing of this lp. I have an original and it sounds great. This was a well recorded album to begin with. Now obviously with the MFSL (sonics aside) you are paying for a collector's item. The value has probably gone up as the original master has been damaged/destroyed. The only reason I know this is because Classic Records was going to reissue this lp recently and didn't because their was a problem with the original master.

So is the price because of the sonics or the limited availability of this release? Maybe someone else can comment who has an original vs the MFSL release.

[Sam]

In my opinion, the answer is BOTH. The sonics are stunning--and I have an early original pressing that was compared to the mofi. The mofi is nice! And yes, since classic did not release it, the value goes up. Paid $125 for mine on ebay---mint condition and worth it to me.

[Ronflugelguy]

I had one and I sold it, because I needed the money(sold my whole MOFI collection about 4 yrs ago). Is this a verified fact, that CLASSIC will not release Dejavu?????? I'd love to hear the MOFI on my new equipment!

[KLM]

Ron,
I have not talked to Classic Records but my friends at Red Trumpet say no dice on the Deja Vu release. Maybe I can get more info at the upcoming Stereophile Show in NY. I too would like to try a copy and was dissapointed to hear the news.

[Todd Fredericks]

I think I also read somewhere last year that Classic Records had to pull the plug on this release because the master tape is in poor/damaged condition. I haven't heard the MFSL version but my US first pressing is superb. For me, I'm happy with what I have and I wouldn't spend too much money on the MFSL ($200?). I'd rather use the money to buy several other albums. Maybe I'd think differently about it if it was my number one favorite album or the first pressing wasn't good...

Todd

[TommyTunes]

I have both the first issue US and the MFSL. IMO it is one of the few MFSL that truely is worth the money. I bests the regular pressing in overall clarity. I have also heard the same about Classic not going through with the reissue. However I think this may be one of the LP's that Neil Young has control of, which could mean that he may have other ideas for a reissue. Can you say DVD-A?

[Humorem]

Originally posted by Ben
I have the original Atlantic issue.
Which one? There are at least twenty by my count. Does it sound like mud? Most of them do! PR in the dead wax? Cut by Artisan (kind of a circle with two legs)? Mostly muddy.


Great album - the CD is very so-so...is the Mobile Fidelity vinyl an improvement worth investing in....?


The JG CD is mostly correct to my ear except that it has no top end in the JG fashion. And it's a CD. I sold mine long ago; hated it.

All you MOFI LP owners, don't you notice that the voices are thick and congealed sounding, like running the tape through an old, slow, murky sounding tube amp with too many KT 66s pushing and pulling on each other? With the negative feedback control turned to 11? That's what I hear.

This is a case where the MOFI beats the average domestic copies, but pales before good domestic copies, which I admit are very rare and hard to find but well worth the hunt in this case.

If you have flat sounding transistor gear, the MOFI will bring some tubey EQ to your world and make you think the sound is better than it is.

This is a little parlor trick MOFI learned how to do early on. They pulled it out of their bag from time to time to fool people. I was fooled, for years. Used to demo my stereo with that one. What was I thinking? What was I hearing?

The Doors (051) has the same EQ. Sometimes MOFI lathered it on to a record that needed the opposite, as in the case of Gerry Rafferty (058). There they took "muddy" to new heights: let's call it "monsoon".

Those of you with tube gear and negative feedback adjustment, just add more feedback. It's easy to get that sound. But it's very, very wrong. People don't sound like that when they are singing. Not in my world.

This just shows contempt for the recording engineer, one of my personal favorites, Steven Barncard (American Beauty, Brewer and Shipley, etc.) He likes smooth sound, tubey magic, but he knows when to stop. He would have been fired for putting a blanket over those sweet, clear harmonies. Pouring caramel down their throats and making them sing. You're fired! You'll never work in this town again! Go to Petaluma if you must, to be with those of your kind, but get out of L.A.!

Unlike Mobile Fidelity. They can do what they want with the sound he (and others) recorded. I think it's abominable what they did. Others, I see, do not agree with me. Not much I can do about that. But for $200?! C'mon!

Bottom line: don't buy it. Take that big chunk of change and put it in a fund for better equipment.

Then, as you improve your stereo, you can unload more and more audiophile pressings for big money, which will pay for even more better equipment, which will show up the flaws in your audiophile records, which you can then sell for big bucks, to buy even more better equipment...

See how this works? It's all part of god's plan.

TP :eek:

P.S.

When I use the word "audiophile", I am not referring to Steve's work. I am referring to pressings that are purposely colored to appeal to audiophiles. Steve doesn't do that.

[McIntosh]

Originally posted by Humorem



This is a case where the MOFI beats the average domestic copies, but pales before good domestic copies, which I admit are very rare and hard to find but well worth the hunt in this case.


If you have any of the good domestic in stock that you'll part with, email me - First album I ever bought and still one of my favorites........

[Humorem]

I have about 50 customers ahead of you, sorry. I can find one or two really good ones a year, that's it. Don't have time to dig through the bins like I used to.
TP

[Humorem]

Hah, just in one minute later:

"Tom,
I don't have time to register... but had to respond with a resounding you are SOOOOOOOOOOOO right
about the Mofi. We recently shot out Oz's Mofi with the domestic copy my
friend David got from you a couple of years ago and it was unanimous between
the three Phonogrammers here that the domestic beat it easily. I think you
said the stampers to look for were something like... and have
been looking at every copy I see and haven't found em. I know the one you
sent David had different stampers than that but can't remember what they
were."
Mike

I sent David some reissue stampers, which can be quite good; they typically beat the pants off the MOFI, but not always. Can't even find those anymore!

TP

[JohnT]

Kind of off topic here but in the general vicinity... Graham Nash's Songs for Survivors should be released tomorrow on DVD-A. Anyone else up for this? I'm optimistic for some nice sonics.

Missing master for Deja Vu... Does that mean no DVD-A possible? Hope not.

Edit - Songs for Survivors... not Songs for Beginners

[Tristan]

Tom,
I have an original domestic Atlantic (real picture cover) that sounds pretty decent to my ear.
Stampers:
ST A701829-3G CTH / ST A701830-3D
Since you are the stamper God, how do you rate these?
Thanks,
Amateur LP collector

[Humorem]

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Tristan, can't help you. Buy ten copies and see how they shake out. They made 5 million. They're out there.

Sorry, bud.

TP

[David R. Modny]

Originally posted by Humorem


This just shows contempt for the recording engineer, one of my personal favorites, Steven Barncard (American Beauty, Brewer and Shipley, etc.) He likes smooth sound, tubey magic, but he knows when to stop.
.


Stephen Barncard was really the second engineer on Deja Vu (actually the first album that he worked on), with Bill Halverson really doing quite a bit of the work - though that's another story in itself. Stephen was mostly still in the learning stages at this point.

For the record, Stephen has said through the years that he feels that *something* was done to the two-track during the mastering stage. He and Bill were "shocked" when they first heard the record...not properly displaying what he feels they captured on tape! He spoke of him and Graham wanting to do a complete remix about 6 or 7 years ago.

When he's not busy running the CSNY and CPR websites, he can be found on the Lee Shore llist, where this discussion has come up from time to time.

[Humorem]

Well I hope they don't remix it to make it sound more modern like Graham did with his first album. Even though I like the remix, liberties were taken and it has lost some of the natural quality of the original.

Lots of things are done in the mastering stage, usually to fix problems the recording engineers caused. Just ask SH. Maybe he will weigh in on the subject.

TP

PS Just got on the CSNY website. Don't see much there unless you want to go to their concert. Does Stephen have anything to say on there? Couldn't find it.

[Steve Hoffman]

Ahhhh, don't like that Graham Nash first LP remix as much now, eh Tom?

Yep, remixing from that era is bad ju ju, and I don't care HOW clean the sound ca be remixed. The natural feeling of the music ALWAYS suffers! Too much hindsight.

---------------------------------------------------------

Regarding Deja Vu, I was told by an engineer at Atlantic that the first Atlantic CD release was made flat from the original leadered stereo master tape. The end. If you don't like the sound of it, you are ***** out of luck. And I DON'T!

I never did like the sound of it actually. Never did. I love the music, and I've had 5 versions of the Atlantic LP over the years, all with various stages of midrange, or treble, or bass boost added. Big deal. The actual tape ain't that hot.

So, I enjoy the music, listen to my old CD version and save my money for other albums.

[John Oteri]

You mean, take the old Atlantic CD and EQ it any way we want?

Heck, the money we save on NOT buying the MoFi LP, we could buy an equalizer!;)

[Humorem]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Regarding Deja Vu, I was told by an engineer at Atlantic that the first Atlantic CD release was made flat from the original leadered stereo master tape.
Pincus called me today after reading the thread and said the same thing: early CD is correct, LP sounds "folded in", even on Carry On.

The music is so good, I put up with the sonic problems. Love means never having to say you're sorry.

And I still play the new Graham version. You know me, I'm a sucker for that "big" sound, not a purist by any stretch of the imagination. I've played that album so many times after having my heart broken that the emotional connection to the music can survive even modern drum tracks being added.;)

TP

[pjrashid]

This is somewhat related to some of the MOFI releases on Ebay that are popping out of the woodwork...Does anybody know whether the MOFI release of the Beatles stuff is worth it too??

I've been seeing alot of it on Ebay lately and have bought a couple, but haven't received them yet. Should I be pumped or expect to be let down? Thanks.

Peter

[Steve Hoffman]

What MoFi Beatles? If you are talking about LP's, well...

BUT, if you are talking about CD's, there ARE no MoFi Beatles CD's. If you see one, or have bought one, it is a bootleg.

[David R. Modny]

Originally posted by Humorem

PS Just got on the CSNY website. Don't see much there unless you want to go to their concert. Does Stephen have anything to say on there? Couldn't find it.


He's only the webmaster on the current group site, as well as David's CPR site. He doesn't post there. He does have his own "Barncard pages" where he puts stuff up. He's done pieces on recording "If I Could Only Remember My Name" (as well as a piece on the Classic reissue), the Kantner, Crosby and company PERRO sessions, and other assorted stuff related to his career. He's also on the Lee Shore mailing list (along with Croz from time to time).

BTW, if you look on the CSNY page, you can see my review of the Cleveland show (first one at the top of the fan reviews page). I e-mailed him the ordered setlist also for that respective page.

[pjrashid]

Steve,

I was talking about the cd. Bootleg? Yikes!! I had a funny feeling about them because they aren't in any MOFI catalog that I ever saw. The sellers claims the following:

With The Beatles MFSL gold cd This cd is not in the MFSL catalog but it is made from mfsl masters the cover says ORIGINAL MASTER RECORDING across the top and says mobile fidelity sound lab on the label and cd. This is a import made in Italy. Comes in jewel case there is a sticker on booklet that says 24k gold. The disc comes with a Beatles trading card (each of the cd’s has one of these cards), the cd is new but as most imports not shrink wrapped.

Thanks.

Peter

[pjrashid]

Steve,

P.S.,

I just won the bids on them, but haven't paid for them. I don't support bootleg copies...it's against my religion as an IP attorney!! I'll have to inform the sellers that they need to find someone else!! Thanks for the info.

Peter