How good are the Sony 777ES and 555ES SACD players on Redbook?

[Gary]

Previously having compared a Denon (2200) and Pioneer (45A) universal player to a CD only player (Rega Planet) the sales guy convinced me that a redbook only player would beat a universal player. The Planet trounced the universal players. Makes sense, really - the universals can't do everything right, can they?

So I went CD player listening today. All prices in CAD dollars. Big problem, though: It was B&W day at the Le Stereo Shoppe (not it's real name) and it was B&W day everywhere. Nothing against B&W, they have good stuff, but they had B&W mini speakers to listen to in the audio-only room. Nice little guys but not something that you would do serious listening with! Oh well.... you gotta roll with the punches, huh? I did some comparisons anyway.

Arcam CD82: Pretty good. Upgradable. $1,800.00.

Arcam CD92: Better, but not by that much. Upgradable. But on sale for $2,050.00 (from $2,600.00) as their upsampling line is coming out soon.

Musical Fidelity A3.2: This has 24/96 upsampling. About $2,400.00, IIRC. A bit better but still not that impressive. I may like the Arcam better on further listening (with full range speakers). I've heard the high end M-F CDP for $4,400.00 at another store. Nice but still a bit too forward. Good midrange, though.

Linn Ikemi: Wow. At $2,850.00 for a mint used player (the plastic peel-off protection over the display was never removed!), that ranks as a double wow. Very nice midrange, ultra smooth - a joy to listen to. Trounces all of the above. Someone traded it in for a Linn Unidisc. Of course someone else has probably snapped it up by now. :(

Anyway, I was not mentally prepared to $pend that much money. But still... I may have made a mistake. But maybe not - I may have to investigate this Linn Unidisc thing.

So, on to the Sony 777 (and 555). How good are these on redbook playback? I know that they (at the very least) have no video playback, which is cool. And they are very well built. But I really want excellent redbook playback and I wonder if the 777 (or 555) can do it for me.

I might consider importing a XA777ES from Oade Brothers. It'll probably cost me somewhere in the range of $3,500.00 CAD. Ouch! No, a high end Sony is not available here in Canada. Sold out long ago! A 777 is highly sought after and a used one is impossible to find.

Any comparison thoughts about the 777 / 555 vs. a standard redbook high end player will be appreciated.

Gary

PS: I know of a used Krell for about $2,500.00 in another store. I shoud take a listen to that, too! Anyone like Krell CDPs? is a Linn better? Worse?

I just love this audiophile stuff. ;)

[Metralla]

You can't put the SCD-777ES and the SCD-555ES in the same bracket really. The 777 is much better in so many ways. The transport is a gem, one of the best ever made, and the 777 is really more like the SCD-1, except for the pseudo-balanced outputs on the SCD-1, and different transformers.

The 555 is a m/c changer (do you want m/c?), and doesn't compare to the 777 in sound, certainly not on Redbook. I would not recommend one unless you could practically steal it. They did blow some of these out at low prices; and I know of more than one 333 owner who had the well-known m/c static problem and sent their machine to Sony to be fixed, and back came a 555! So only under US$350 would make me get a second-hand 555.

A Matt Anker modified 775 will be very competitive to a standard 777 in sound, but it's a cheap looking player. Poor transport.

The 777 is a better unit than the XA777ES in some ways - much better laser assembly etc. The XA is packed inside, almost impossible to work on, has lots of funky stuff - total overkill with these three DAC boards running dual channel DACs and the stereo system tries to parallel these through cheap op-amps. Both machines are well built.

If I had my druthers I would have bought an SCD-1 or a 777. I thought I could get the DACs to run in full differential mode correctly without op amps, but the noise was awful and we had to abandon the idea. So I would have been better off starting with a normal 777 and having that modified.

Actually I'm still kicking myself a bit over a demo Marantz SA14 that I passed on at $1300.

You have to make up your mind on m/c. If you don't want that for say two to three years, don't get the 555 or the XA777. If you don't want a modified unit, get a used 777.

My recommendation for someone starting out - the Matt Anker modified 775.

Regards,
Geoff

[JohnT]

I have no experience with the 777ES but have owned a 555ES for almost two years and it is my primary Redbook player. I was under the impression it was not available any longer.

I don't have a tremendous Redbook collection, maybe 400 or so discs with around 100 acquired from recommendations from round' here including a couple dozen DCC's. Power comes from a receiver, main speakers are an old pair of Snell model J's with the bottom end filled out with a sub. The system does a good job and creates a nice warm sound but obviously not upper echelon stuff.

The 555 handles Redbook duty and I've been very happy with it. It'll play whatever I throw at it including CD-R's. Ho-hum CD's will sound Ho-hum, and great ones will sound great. DCC's can sound phenomenal.

A new stereo SACD I've listened to a couple times is Donovan-Storyteller. This disc reveals sounds and a warmth I can't explain. Of course I don't have another SACD player to compare it on but, the 555 is capable of putting the performance in the room with you.

The transport can be noisy and can whine a little until it starts playing but I've seen no performance problems. And yes, it does m/c sacd but don't overlook what it does with good ol' 2-channel.

[peter]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnT
[B]I have no experience with the 777ES but have owned a 555ES for almost two years and it is my primary Redbook player. I was under the impression it was not available any longer.


Indeed, it is not... I have tried everywhere... I was going to get the Phillips 963..., but the comments on this site have killed that for me (for which I am grateful, I might add).

There is supposed to be a replacement (an entire line) for the 555, but who knows when we will see it.

Oade Bros., last time I talked to them, quoted me $425.00 for a new 222, with mods., which they said will beat a 555, with the mods in question. The 555, though, with mods, will be the modded 222. Problems, problems.

I am probably going to get the 222, but I sure would like the 555!

[peter]

Originally posted by peter
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by JohnT
[B]


with the mods in question.

///


I meant to say "WITHOUT THE MODS IN QUESTION." (a

[HeavyDistortion]

I also have the 555ES and I'm very happy with it's redbook CD playback. On my system, most CDs sound warmer and smoother than ever, and it does seem to play any CDRs without any trouble.





Ed Hurdle
HeavyDistortion

[Todd Fredericks]

I'm very happy with my 555ES also. I think it's a fine player and especially for the low prices it was going for when it was being discontinued. I had the 775 but the 555ES is on another level (which it should be for the price).

Todd

[peter]

Originally posted by Todd Fredericks
I'm very happy with my 555ES also. I think it's a fine player and especially for the low prices it was going for when it was being discontinued. I had the 775 but the 555ES is on another level (which it should be for the price).

Todd

I would LOVE to get a 555!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dwmann]

I have both the 555 and the AX777. I use the 555 for carousel playback when I'm puttering around the house, and use the AX777 for serious listening. The 555 is a GOOD player. The AX777 kills it.

On redbook, the 555 sounds very good, and the differences between it and the AX777 are subtle. Neither player has much grain. Both players have a LOT of detail and clarity, but the AX777 has just a little more, as well as a "tighter" sound. However, there is a qualitatative difference in the two players that is immediately apparent in an AB test - the AX777 has a depth to the sound that the 555 doesn't have. It's not just the soundstage, which is deeper in the AX777 - the AX777 has a depth that is almost tube-like, while maintaining the tightness and clarity of great solid-state. Let's say that the 555 has a sound quality similar to a well-mastered CD, and the AX777 has a sound quality similar to a DCC gold. Or a master tape.

I can listen to the 555 all day with no complaints. It's not world-class, but it sounds better than any other changer I've ever heard, and better than any single-disc players of comparable price ($800 - $100). (According to Oade, they can make it sound more like the AX777 by replacing the Op amps.) And it's built like a tank.

However, the sound of the AX777 has an emotional impact that the 555 lacks. Of course, MOST CD players lack this kind of emotional impact until you get into big ticket items. As noted in Stereophile, the player falls in the "accurate" rather than "euphonic" category, which is a good thing if you're playing well mastered discs, not so good if you're playing junk. But on a great disc, this player sounds FANTASTIC. (It's the ONLY CD player I've ever heard that I could even THINK of buying that reminds me of the sound of a truly excellent vinyl setup. )

I won't say the AX777 will give you the BEST redbook you can buy, but it's probably as good as anything you're going to find for under $5000. Certainly as good in its way as the Linn or Krell are in theirs. Plus you get SACD and MC. (Although no HDCD) All I can say is, I'm STILL amazed at how good this player sounds, and listening to a great disc on this player always puts a little smile on my face that I could never get from CD.

I don't get that same sense of musical fulfilment from CD on the 555, but the 555 is still a very good CD player. It doesn't have the vinyl-like quality of the AX777, but few players do. If you're willing to compromise on the sound a little, and if you can find one, the 555 is probably the best-sounding player available at its price point. If you're looking for first-rate CD playback, you can't go wrong with the AX777.

[Dave]

Originally posted by dwmann
I have both the 555 and the AX777. I use the 555 for carousel playback when I'm puttering around the house, and use the AX777 for serious listening. The 555 is a GOOD player. The AX777 kills it.

On redbook, the 555 sounds very good, and the differences between it and the AX777 are subtle. Neither player has much grain. Both players have a LOT of detail and clarity, but the AX777 has just a little more, as well as a "tighter" sound. However, there is a qualitatative difference in the two players that is immediately apparent in an AB test - the AX777 has a depth to the sound that the 555 doesn't have. It's not just the soundstage, which is deeper in the AX777 - the AX777 has a depth that is almost tube-like, while maintaining the tightness and clarity of great solid-state. Let's say that the 555 has a sound quality similar to a well-mastered CD, and the AX777 has a sound quality similar to a DCC gold. Or a master tape.

I can listen to the 555 all day with no complaints. It's not world-class, but it sounds better than any other changer I've ever heard, and better than any single-disc players of comparable price ($800 - $100). (According to Oade, they can make it sound more like the AX777 by replacing the Op amps.) And it's built like a tank.

However, the sound of the AX777 has an emotional impact that the 555 lacks. Of course, MOST CD players lack this kind of emotional impact until you get into big ticket items. As noted in Stereophile, the player falls in the "accurate" rather than "euphonic" category, which is a good thing if you're playing well mastered discs, not so good if you're playing junk. But on a great disc, this player sounds FANTASTIC. (It's the ONLY CD player I've ever heard that I could even THINK of buying that reminds me of the sound of a truly excellent vinyl setup. )

I won't say the AX777 will give you the BEST redbook you can buy, but it's probably as good as anything you're going to find for under $5000. Certainly as good in its way as the Linn or Krell are in theirs. Plus you get SACD and MC. (Although no HDCD) All I can say is, I'm STILL amazed at how good this player sounds, and listening to a great disc on this player always puts a little smile on my face that I could never get from CD.

I don't get that same sense of musical fulfilment from CD on the 555, but the 555 is still a very good CD player. It doesn't have the vinyl-like quality of the AX777, but few players do. If you're willing to compromise on the sound a little, and if you can find one, the 555 is probably the best-sounding player available at its price point. If you're looking for first-rate CD playback, you can't go wrong with the AX777.
I had thought this without actually hearing the 2 units in question. Excellent statement of review dw. :righton:

Hopefully Gary will be as impressed with this great analogy as I am. :D

[Metralla]

Originally posted by Dave
I had thought this without actually hearing the 2 units in question.
Dangerous territory Dave!

Regards,
Geoff

(Edit: I can't even spell my own name!)

[Gary]

Yes, I am, Dave! Sounds like what I am looking for! Comparable to the Krell and the Linn? Fantastic!

But the cost...!!! :eek: And where to find one - import from the USA, I guess.

:sigh:

[JohnT]

Excellent comparision there dwmann. It's not the norm for one to run multiple players like this, so a review like yours helps to peg em' as they are.

So, has anyone had the Oade Bros upgrade done? And of course, how much of an improvement does it make?

[Clay]

What is the difference of the CD player if you upgrade the D/A instead like to a $7k Luxman? One of my friends uses a Sony 300 CD unit with a Luxman $7k preamp and it sounds incredible. The rest of the system is very expensive like $2k speaker wires etc.

[MARKM]

investigate this Linn Unidisc thing.

So, on to the Sony 777 (and 555). How good [I]are these on redbook playback? I know that they (at the very least) have no video playback, which is cool. And they are very well built. But I really want excellent redbook playback and I wonder if the 777 (or 555) can do it for me.

I might consider importing a XA777ES from Oade Brothers. It'll probably cost me somewhere in the range of $3,500.00 CAD. Ouch! No, a high end Sony is not available here in Canada. Sold out long ago! A 777 is highly sought after and a used one is impossible to find.

Any comparison thoughts about the 777 / 555 vs. a standard redbook high end player will be appreciated.

Gary


Hi Gary,

Are you referring to the Sony SCD-555-ES ? I have had one of these for 2yrs and it has excellent std redbook CD performance - HiFi Choice reviewed it.

This is a stereo single disc player (not carousel - not to be confused with the US model of similar designation) that is closer to the '777 - except it is not multichannel (only real difference)

However, have a feeling it was only available in Europe......... ?

Went EOL late 2001/early 2002.

Cheers,
MarkM.

[Metralla]

Originally posted by MARKM
However, have a feeling it was only available in Europe......... ?
Yes. Sony did not sell that one or the XA333ES in the USA. Instead, they sold two carousel models, the 555 and the 333. Too bad.

Regards,
Geoff

[peter]

And now the 222 is gone as well!!!

Looks like it's 777 time. One company has qouted me 2k w/ free shipping. A lot, but it looks like it's worth it.

[Gary]

I think I'll be checking out the 555ES myself. Significantly cheaper and as a 5 disc player, you can hear hours of music, do almost instant A/B comparisons, etc.

Thanks for all the comments!

[Todd Fredericks]

Originally posted by Gary
I think I'll be checking out the 555ES myself. Significantly cheaper and as a 5 disc player, you can hear hours of music, do almost instant A/B comparisons, etc.

Thanks for all the comments!

Gary, I think you'll enjoy the 555ES and for the price it's incredible bang for the buck.

Todd

[peterC]

To partly answer Gary's thread title, I have only auditioned 1 SACD player, the 777, and I was very disappointed with its redbook performance.

Maybe I was expecting too much.

[Chris M]

Originally posted by JohnT
Excellent comparision there dwmann. It's not the norm for one to run multiple players like this, so a review like yours helps to peg em' as they are.

So, has anyone had the Oade Bros upgrade done? And of course, how much of an improvement does it make?

I had the Oade Bros mods on my 555ES but I had them done before it was sent to me so I never heard it without. My 555ES is about to go back to Sony as it won't play CDR's and struggles reading redbook CD's as well:realmad:

Chris

[Gary]

What were you comparing the 777 to, PeterC? Or was it a "general" disappointment?

I can only throw one buncha money in one direction. I am attracted to the SACD / redbook combo since all universal players in my price range do redbook very poorly. Frankly, logic tells me to buy a Linn or Krell redbook player before a universal player. Why sacrafice redbook playback when 99.8% of my silvery discs and golden discs are redbook?

And that Linn was amazing.... :eek:

[SamS]

Gary's on the hunt for a new disc-spinner again ;) :thumbsup:

I'm sure you remember my previous post on this topic:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=393653&highlight=508.24#post393653

I keep putting my nose in these threads as an owner of both the C555ES and XA777ES, I have strong feelings on their strengths and weaknesses.

That Linn in primo condition sure would make me drool. You'd want to check into some kind of extra warranty coverage for it should you go down that path.

Many have said it before and I'll repeat it: You won't be sacrificing redbook peformance, for those 99.8% of your discs, with the XA777ES. Sure, there are better players, but I doubt anyone can listen to the XA and think there's that much more room for improvement. Have you listened to different Krell CDPs before? I took a couple home one time (can't remember exact models) and they didn't sound all that different than my C555ES changer). These where some of their lower-end models (yeah at only $2-4K) so I'm sure they have some "high-end" stuff that's better.

The regular stereo '777ES model is pretty cool, but remember about the whole "puck" thing and long load times. As neato as it looks, I sometimes think those two things alone would drive me batty. Something to consider...

[peterC]

Originally posted by Gary
What were you comparing the 777 to, PeterC? Or was it a "general" disappointment?



Gary,

Only to my old Pioneer CD player. I haven't upgraded anything in my system for over 10 years and for some reason I was expecting enormous differences which of course was probably a silly expectation.

So I guess it was more of a "general" disappointment.

[Metralla]

Originally posted by SamS
Sure, there are better players, but I doubt anyone can listen to the XA and think there's that much more room for improvement
That's probably true with all really good hifi - and the XA is really good. Perhaps that's why one is amazed when that really good performance is significantly improved upon - hence "blown away". The reason we say that is we are content, listening to really great sound, digging the music in all its colour and tension, and then put the same disc on the better machine and - uh oh, that's just silly good. And there's a big grin on your face. And you know you're not going back to Kansas.

Originally posted by SamS
The regular stereo '777ES model is pretty cool, but remember about the whole "puck" thing and long load times. As neato as it looks, I sometimes think those two things alone would drive me batty.

That's the great transport right there. It's miles better than the XA777ES (which I own). I don't think it would bother me.

Regards,
Geoff