Genesis CD Remasters 1994 vs 2007

Hello,
the forum search function did not help on this subject.

Has anyone compared the 1994 "definitive remasters" to the recent 2009 remasters?

I only own "Selling England By The Pound", 1994 edition, and I'd like to expand my Genesis discography with more classic albums. Would like to know if I should track down the old versions or I could simply get the widely available new remasters.

Thanks
all the best
G.

 

I much prefer the 1994 DE remasters to the new. In fact I the new ones pretty unlistenable.

 

The '94 DEs are original mixes, the '09 remasters are remixes.

 

Interesting, I thought both are remixes...

 

That's the biggest difference of course. Most Genesis albums in my collection are the 1994 DE versions. They do have their flaws, but most sound decent enough to me. Many forum members dislike the '09 remasters, because they appear to be brickwalled, which makes them hard to listen to for a longer period.

I have some friends that really start to get into Genesis, but aren't too much into sound quality, at least not in the way people on this forum are. Most of them are raving about the new remixes. I haven't heard these yet, but I'm on the brink of giving at least one of these a listen - particularly And then there were three, of which neither the 1994 DE nor the original Atlantic sounds very good. It's a muddy recording to begin with. I'm curious to know if the remix takes away a bit of the haze that seems to cover this particular recording.

 

I only bought the new discs so I could have the DVD goodies. The CDs themselves are painful to my ears. There's no room for the music to breathe on those things. I'll take the dull '94 discs over the brain-crushing remixes any day of the week.

 

Well said. Although the '70-'75 surround mixes are actually quite nice, and much easier on the ears than the surround mixes from the other boxes.

 

I hate them both, with only the 1994 Selling England By The Pound and the Gabriel era 2008 remixes being somewhat listenable. Whether one is worse than the other is a case by case thing. Vinyl is really the only way to go when it comes to Genesis. If there's one band that needs the audiophile treatment on CD, it's Genesis. MFSL, Audio Fidelity, are you listening?

 

Apples and oranges. The remixes/remastering, imo, totally change the character of the records, and in some cases suffer from mixing errors (missing guitar parts, missing flute parts,etc.) The "Selling England..." DE I think is pretty good, and I've kept and enjoy my DEs of 'The Lamb...", 'Foxtrot', 'Wind And Wuthering' and 'And Then There Were Three' - I replaced the others with the old Atlantic versions with 'Duke' and 'A Trick Of The Tail' being outstanding. 'Trespass' and 'Nursery Cryme', I listen to the remixes, but remain disappointed with the remix of 'The Knife' - I just hate all other cd versions of 'Trespass'.

 

The original (1980s) CD versions of at least Selling England, Trick of the Tail and Seconds Out are astonishingly good, and the rest are, at worst the most listenable versions!

I got into Genesis with these CD versions, sold them all when I bought all the DEs in 94-95, and then wondered why I fell out of love with the albums and didn't want to listen to them any more.

Upon buying all the remixed "Blue" box in 2007 and wondering what on earth was wrong with the sound of it, I came across this forum, understood the various pitfalls of the DEs and the remixes, and then fell back in love with these albums when I rebought the 80s versions!

I wouldn't even bother with anything else, to be honest - although the remixes are at least interesting when you know the originals.

 

<removed due to thread title correction>
2009 live remixes are generally 5db less loud than studio remixes and do not have any substantial difference loudwise with first CD issue and 1994 DEs, just sonically are better without being too loud or having squashed or harsh rhythm sound or too much bright sound in keyboard or guitars. I am very happy with that since live albums are my priority in Genesis discography. The reason for that? Well, all studio remixes are made in 2007, live remixes were all made in 2009, two years later so something was revisited in better as mix and/or master approach.

A.B.

 

I agree. To the original poster, here's the deal: The 1994 remasterings use the original mixes, but apply noise reduction and accentuate the bass and treble. On some equipment, this might sound fine, but many in here (including me) prefer the original '80s issues.

The more recent issues are all remixes, and are extremely controversial. They emphasize clarity above all else, and many fans seem to love hearing details previously buried in the original mix. On the other hand, in addition to being different mixes, they are compressed to the point where all the dramatic crescendos of the originals have disappeared and extended listening through headphones gives me a headache. The upper mids and treble have also been boosted way beyond even the 1994 levels, which many of us also dislike.

So what you prefer depends on your sonic priorities. If you do want to explore the forum-favorite early versions, keep in mind that there are some differences among different early versions. Both US and European versions of Duke, Trick, Lamb, Selling England, and a few others are fairly similar. But in other cases, like Trespass or And Then There Were Three, the European version is strongly preferred. Wind & Wuthering is a special case--most original versions sound thin, and the 1994 remaster is sometimes preferred, unless you can find an original version (for either Europe or US) pressed by Sanyo Japan, which has a much warmer and fuller sound.

 

I heard a few of the tracks remixed, and was stunned to hear Phil single-tracked on songs he was originally double-tracked on. This was a major disappointment; Phil's natural voice is rather thin, but double-tracked, it takes on an appealingly spooky presence.

 

anyone listened to the 1970-97 vinyl box set?

IMHO, ALL Genesis boxes had faults

The 1976-1982 was too compressed

The 1983-1998, equal

The 1970-1975 was by far the best one of the studio boxes. Sadly in some places some Gabriel vocals were mixed from another takes unused on the original mixes (listen to the beginning of Dancing With The Moonlit Knight and "and it's hey babe ... (to) ... it's been a long time, hasn't it?").

The live box was the better sounding, but AWFULLY COMPILED. After so many suggestions, polls, Nick Davis & Mike Rutherford feedback from fans, etc they didn't include Supper's Ready @ Genesis Live, they didn't include the complete Seconds Out performance, etc


Perhaps a 50th anniversary collection in 2017 will make it right

 

Well, I like to listen to the 2007 studio remixes for some specific things, such as some particular instrument sounds even though here and there there is the main issue of the blow sound or the squashed drums. Some passages are great, such as TB's solo on Down and Out or the synth progressions on Cul de Sac, 5.1. studio remixes are however far better than the stereo remixes. The worst point compressionwise is the section "hey man Iam the sandman..." on Mad Man Moon, while 1970-75 is generally better to listen to due to that reason (the compression is much more controlled). About the V/C first issue, I never was much fond of them, the only one I currently have is ATTWT which for sure is not loud by any means but it is weak and quite muddy for my taste. Just to compare the sound on the original CDs of PC's Face Value and HIMBG is way better than the Genesis very first V/C editions.

However 1973-2007 live is by far the best remix/remaster ever heard in Genesis area both as 5.1. remixes (Seconds Out and Rainbow sound superb, still I have to listen to Lamb Live excerpts as of today), and stereo remixes (Three Sides Live is the best Live stereo sounding CD I ever listened to, TWWW is way improved respect to the distorted and bright first emission CD while I still have to listen to Barry Diament's TSL which i will get soon, it will be funny to compare it to the great 2009 remix).

A.B.

 

I don't find any of the '94 DE's unlistenable on most speakers. They just aren't nearly as much fun as some of the orig's (Trick of the Tail, Duke.) Wind & Wuthering is in some ways better on the '94 than my preferred Japan for US Atco early version. The 2007 version in hi-res is kind of an unpleasant shock. Really ouch.

 

While I prefer the originals the DE Remasters from 1994 are in my opinion quite acceptable for the most part and are preferable to the dreadful remasters/remixes released most recently.

 

Don't you mean, 1970-'75 vinyl box?

Personally, I think it's the best Genesis product available ever.

 

Thank you for your detailed info.
First of all, I prefer original mixes to remixes and I was not aware that the 2007 remasters are remixes. So the latter are out of my scope.
That said, I'd like to get first of all "Foxtrot" and "Lamb Lies Down" and then the other "classic" albums. I don't have time to track down older CD releases, so I'll sure go for the 1994 remasters which are still available online (they are not in local shops here). Later on I might track down other versions, but I must have the 1994 versions asap.

 

Thank you for your advice.

 

The change of the character of the albums is something that I cannot stand, I mean I want to have the original mixes above all. Later on I could also get the remixes.
Thank you

 

I agree the '70-75 box is the best of the 3 studio boxes and the live box is good as well.
3 Sides Live particularly benefits from having a better mix as you can actually feel
the bass pedals. As for the rest, I would go to Amazon and buy up the originals as echoed
from the above posts here. For 'Trick' or Duke just go directly there now and get the original
Atlantics mastered by Barry Diament. Trust me you won't regret it.

 

I think you should collect all versions!!! I like the originals and I like the remixes. I like the remixes because you get a different perspective on the recordings. Some of the mixes are quite different but overall I like them. The originals of course are essential so if you have to go one way or the other, get the original mixes.

 

But if he is going after the sound he remembers hearing, he will be sorely disappointed in most of the new stuff. Unless he is a drummer!