Roxio (Toast/CD Creator) Question

[Casino]

Has anyone here had this problem with Roxio's CD-burning software? (I use Toast, but CD Creator for PC's is essentially the same.)

When copying a CD in it's entirety using the Copy function, all is well. But if I only want to copy certain selections, I double-click a CD icon and then drag individual tracks into the audio window of Toast. But especially when doing this from a CD originally made with Toast, the tracks usually get cut off a few seconds before the end of the track. So a song that fades out gets cut off before the fade is complete. Very annoying.

Same problem when using the extract function. A track that's 3:20 long might be only 3:18 long in the extracted file. Again, the very last portion of the fadeout gets truncated. If I extract with another program, placing it on my hard drive, and drag into Toast, the file is of the right length (3:20 in this example), it burns OK. But if I extract with Toast or just drag the track icon into Toast, when Toast burns the track it skips to the next track a couple of seconds short of the actual end of the track it's burning. Seems like Toast is ignoring the sound once it gets below a certain level.

Any ideas? I've fooled around with track spacing, etc. but that seems to have no effect. The manual doesn't address such a problem.

[Grant]

I think this a problem with the disc itself, with the way it was written, and maybe the CD ROM or burner used to rip the CD.

I have experienced this in CD creator with certain CD-Rs and an HP burner. It also happened to me a few months ago when I attempted to rip a track from a CD-R3 I made with Nero on my Yamaha burner.

[Casino]

Well, Grant, it may have something to do with the way the disc (from which I'm taking the tracks) was written. It's not the burner because, as I said, if I extract with another program (in my case, SoundStudio), THEN drag to Toast, there's no problem. Toast seems to have a problem only with its own files.

Makes it a pain if I have a 20-track disc I made, and let's say I want to re-do it to raise the volume on one track. Instead of merely extracting the one track, make my adjustment and then re-burn by dragging into Toast's Audio window along with just the icons of the other 19 tracks, I have to extract all 20 tracks and reburn the whole thing from my hard drive. It works, but it's a pain.

If anyone has some thoughts, would still like to know why Toast doesn't seem to read it's own tracks properly and cuts them off at the very end.

[Alan T]

Sounds like the classic problem I've had with Roxio's/Adaptec CD burning software many years ago: TAO (Track at Once) & DAO (Disc at Once). Roxio's/Adaptec software is notorious for cutting off tracks even in DAO.

Save yourself some problems and get some software from another vendor. Can't recommend anything because I have not been a Mac guy for 15 years.

There is nothing more frustrating than software that will not perform the way it was advertised.

[Casino]

Alan, yes, I was recording in DAO mode. It is ridiculous that you drag over a track from a disc you had made with Toast and it doesn't "take" the whole thing. As I said, you can take a song that's timed at 3:20 and when you drag it over, it's 3:18. And what's missing is the final couple of seconds.

Well, as far as Mac programs for burning are concerned there's always PEAK, I guess, though I personally don't know anyone who is using it. I'll have to investigate that. It's a shame because SoundStudio works so well - you import and record tracks with it, edit tracks with it, EQ, Fade, etc. but don't actually burn with it - you have to use Toast or some other comparable program.

If anyone here uses Peak or Peak LE, I'd like to know about it...

[Grant]

Originally posted by Alan T
Sounds like the classic problem I've had with Roxio's/Adaptec CD burning software many years ago: TAO (Track at Once) & DAO (Disc at Once). Roxio's/Adaptec software is notorious for cutting off tracks even in DAO.



Not only doid I have the problem in CD Creator for Windows, it also happened in Cool Edit Pro 2.1 and Nero 5.5. That is what led me to believe it could be the burner as well, or the way the disc was burned.

[Grant]

Originally posted by Casino
Alan, yes, I was recording in DAO mode. It is ridiculous that you drag over a track from a disc you had made with Toast and it doesn't "take" the whole thing. As I said, you can take a song that's timed at 3:20 and when you drag it over, it's 3:18. And what's missing is the final couple of seconds.



I'm thinking that if you have a two-second gap between tracks on a disc recorded in either DAO or TAO, the software will remove the blank space so it will read two seconds less in the layout. But, in the Windows version, CD creator gives you the option to delete the blank spaces before ripping.

I never used Toast, so...

[Pepzhez]

Casino,

You didn't provide full information, so I need to ask you a few questions. What type of Mac are you using, which version of Toast are you using and which Mac OS version do you have installed? Are you using Toast 5.2 in OS 10.2? This is what I use and I've never had the problem you are describing. I suggest that you make sure that you are up to date with Toast (5.2, although Toast 6 is now out) and OS X (10.2.8 is the current version - although 10.3 is now out...)

It's also a good idea to check for any firmware updates that may be available for your drive, especially if you are ripping from an internal DVD-ROM drive or Superdrive. There is a DVD-ROM/Superdrive firware update available from Apple that specifically addresses audio extraction issues.

Your problem can probably be easily fixed, but I'd need to know more information about your setup.

I can't help but think, however, that your individual track extraction method (dragging the file into Toast from the opened CD icon) is a bit unorthodox. The preferred Toast method is to drag the entire CD icon into the Toast window and use the extract button after highlighting the chosen track(s). As an experiment, try this method with a track that was giving you problems and see if the results are different. My guess is that it will be, because having the entire layout of the disc (with full index info) in Toast will result in a better extraction, particularly for individual tracks.

Please try this and let me know if this works!

(BTW, there is a free alternative for extracting CD tracks: iTunes.)

[Casino]

,L
??i]Originally posted by Grant [/i]


I'm thinking that if you have a two-second gap between tracks on a disc recorded in either DAO or TAO, the software will remove the blank space so it will read two seconds less in the layout. But, in the Windows version, CD creator gives you the option to delete the blank spaces before ripping.

I never used Toast, so... [/QUOTE]

Toast adds the 2-second gap (which is actually 2 seconds of silence of course) to the previous track - the first track of two you're trying to separate. When I extract with Sound Studio, the ENTIRE track is extracted WITH the two-seconds of silence Toast added, so I have to "trim" it off. Not a problem. This is really how it SHOULD work. When I extract with Toast, it may chop off two seconds all right, but it's not the silence - it's the last two seconds of the actual track.

[Casino]

Pepzhez -

Thanks for your post. I use a G4 -450, system 9.1 on one HD and 9.2 on the other. Toast version is 5.0.1. I have the update to 5.2 but have not yet installed it. That's something I'm planning to do.

Regarding Apple update for internal drive (it's not a superdrive, it's a CD/DVD-ROM) I'll have to look for that at Apple's site. If you have the exact location for this, please let me know.

The reason I drag the individual files from the CD icon is that let's say I already have extracted and modified one track that was too loud in relation to the others. What I was trying to do is avoid having to extract all other 19 tracks, respacing them, etc. - I was just trying to make a direct disc-to-disc copy of those other 19 tracks that I don't need to change. Theoretically this is supposed to work, as Roxio has a name for it in their manual - Toast's Greatest Hits, where you can take selections from one or more discs without having to extract. But whether I record disc-to-disc or extract a Toast-burned disc with Toast, I get that "chop-off" at the end.

As I mentioned in a previous post, if I do want to extract, SoundStudio does it perfectly (including the added space I originally set in Toast - 2 seconds in my example). But then I have to trim it off all the tracks (or keep it and set 0 space for the re-burn), save the files, re-drag to Toast, set the gaps, etc. It works, but takes A LOT longer than if I could go disc-to-disc on the tracks I don't need to modify.

[Casino]

For those few who might be interested, software updates did not solve the problem. The problem is just the dumb way Toast works when you try to combine tracks from a disc and tracks from your hard drive onto a single CD. But I've found a solution that avoids having to extract and save each track individually.

Ctreate a disc image of the entire disc in Toast (doesn't take long), drag it into the Audio window and extract only those tracks you want to change - equalize, adjust volume, etc. and then Save. Delete the original track from the original disc image and drag in the modified one. Works fine - no chopped off ends.

[PTgraphics]

What program are you using to adjust volume, etc.? Jam? I use Toast and Jam with the occasional Peak LE and I am pretty happy with the results.

PAT

[Casino]

PAT, I'm using SoundStudio - very good program. I use Toast just for burning - but that's where I discovered the quirk.

If you get a chance, try what I've experienced. Insert a disc you made with Toast, preferably one you might have made yourself as opposed to a copy of a commercial disc. Open the disc icon, double-click one of the tracks and note the time of that track. Drag it over to the Toast Audio window. See if the time is the same as Apple CD AudioPlayer indicated it was.