New Home - Electrical Issues / Music Room

[mudbone]

I'm getting ready to do an eletrical walk through in the house my wife and I are having built. Any advice on isolation, number of outlets. etc. I'm just trying to see if I'm overlooking anything obvious.

mud-:D

[teaser5]

Heres a couple before I hit the road.
1) Hire a professional to do the walk though with you. This is the biggest investment you will probably ever make. Spend the extra money. It's worth it.
2) If the weather sucks postpone the outdoor walkthrough.
3) Don' t let them fool you. My builder had two guys do the walk through and they made a big deal out of lightbulbs. They checked every single light in the house and in the couple of instances where the bulbs didn't work or were'nt there the guy ran out to the truck to get a new bulb. It wasn't until later that I realized that this was a scheme to distract us. Bulbs I can afford.
4) Turn everything on. Dishwasher, all faucets, washer and dryer...everything. First load of clothes we did the damn washing machine walked across the laundry room floor cause it was uneven.
6) Watch out for the way your property and your neighbors property is graded. I had a situation where water came in under the walkout doorframe
7) Your outlets are an important point. They will give you whatever code is. Hire an electrician to run you dedicated circuits off the box into your listening area.
8) If it's not too late get the work you want to have done finished before you move in. I had painters, electriciand, closet stretchers (great idea BTW) all in there doing their thing before my stuff was moved in. Made it a lot easier and a lot safer
9) I have more but I gotta jet.
Enjoy-
And Congrats!
Norm

[mudbone]

Thanks, Norm. When you have time, any watchouts for the "room" where my stereo equipment will be located?

mud-

[b&w]

Originally posted by mudbone
I'm getting ready to do an eletrical walk through in the house my wife and I are having built. Any advice on isolation, number of outlets. etc. I'm just trying to see if I'm overlooking anything obvious.

mud-:D

Mud,

So the walls aren't closed up yet? They actually haven't done the electrical work?

[mudbone]

Originally posted by b&w


Mud,

So the walls aren't closed up yet? They actually haven't done the electrical work?

Nope. We'll be doing the walk-thru soon and I just want to make sure I have enough clean juice and plugs!

mud-:D

[Metralla]

What is a "walk through"? It seems like I should know, but I don't.

Regards,
Geoff

[mudbone]

Originally posted by Metralla
What is a "walk through"? It seems like I should know, but I don't.

Regards,
Geoff

Geoff, that's where you, the builder, and the electrian take the floor plan and discuss where you might want outlets, co-ax runs, lights, etc. Anything of an electrical nature.

mud-

[Bob Lovely]

Mud,

What amp service?

The more the better!

Bob:)

[mudbone]

Originally posted by Bob Lovely
Mud,

What amp service?

The more the better!

Bob:)

Bob, that's what I mean. I have no idea what that means. I expect I'll tell the electrian what I have/want and he'll dicpher it, right? Wrong?

mud-

[Bob Lovely]

Originally posted by mudbone


Bob, that's what I mean. I have no idea what that means. I expect I'll tell the electrian what I have/want and he'll dicpher it, right? Wrong?

mud-

Considering technology and that future Mud dream system, I'd go with 200 amp service my friend - enough power to light up everything and run (2) 1000w Mono amps!

Bob:D

[mudbone]

Originally posted by Bob Lovely


Considering technology and that future Mud dream system, I'd go with 200 amp service my friend - enough power to light up everything and run (2) 1000w Mono amps!

Bob:D

Gotcha! I'll tell him that my friend, Bob, told me so!

Thanks!

mud-:D

[b&w]

Well your at the best stage, walls open you can do lots of things, pre wire for multi room audio, be sure your electrical is done like you want, be sure you got enough coax and cat 5 run, etc. To specifically answer your question however there are some things I have designed in the past and use personally that have worked well.

1. Get a whole house surge protector. These install on the head end unit on the breaker box. Regardless of what you have on the end of the outlets, this is inexpensive extra protection. You can get a unit from several reputable manufactures for around $200. If they are going to charge you more for the part then get it yourself and give it to them.

2. Make sure that the outlets you have in the audio/theater run are 'home runs' to separate breakers on the breaker box. They may have some other nomenclature specific to there own lingo. THe bottom line is that its a continuous piece of "romax" cable that goes from the outlets to the breaker box with no splicing off it. "Romax" is the wire that carries the electricity around the house. How many outlets you want, two or four, etc. is up to you. How much you want to split up the components is up to you also. Budget is really the only factor that should effect your choices. You can split analog audio equipment, digital audio equipment, main channel amplifier, multi channel amplifiers, subwoofers, digital video equipment, and tv/prjector. So there ius the possibility to get quite a lot of home runs. It really is up to you. Why is this good to do? Well because other things that would be on a circuit, that is the splits that come off the normal electrical wiring can induce all kinds of nasties into the sound.

B. I guess this would be a subsection. You will want to be sure they don't combine the electrical outlets with some other outlet in the same box. That's pretty common in new construction, but something you don't want for the best electrical and video.

3. If your one who believes that the actual electrical outlet effects the sound quality then there is choice of what you can have installed instead of the generic $2.00 outlets they normally use. At a minimum I recommend you try the hospital grade units as they may or may not sound better, but they definitely hold the electrical plugs better, last longer, and generally use a higher grade of material in the construction. At the other end you can choose from many Pass & Seymour models. Sense this recommendation is parts related might be something that they builder/electrician might balk at or make excuses at or try to mark up ridicoulous. IF so just tell them you will provide them and then you can do just that.

4. The actual "romex" cable. The bigger the better generally speaking. I have no idea what they are going to use in the house or the main run into the box. You'll only know when you ask. Most likely they are going to use whatever codes says in the minimum in the area and that necessity the best for the electricity. Basically romex works like this in how its described, they use a term 14/3 or 12/3. The lower the number the larger the physical dimension of the cable and the more current it can pass. I would recommend at a minimum you upgrade whatever they are going to use as the main cable in to the breaker box and then to the home runs in the audio/theater room. Let me know what size's they are talking about and I'll give you more specific recommendations. JPS laboratories makes an interesting cable if your into really doing it to the max, though it isn't inexpensive.

Finally remember though they may hem and haw and whine, it is in the end your HOME and you can have them do whatever you want to it in so far as your not asking them to violate any codes. Which your not. Your also not asking them to do any work that's out of what they normally would do, so don't expect them to charge you more labor just because you want to have them use a larger sized 'romax' cable. You will of course incur more labor with the home runs but again that's logical. Now if all of this is getting wrapped into the home loan then you really should get it done right, get it done once, and get it done now. It's much more expensive to have to retrofit electrical then getting it done when the walls are open. If you want suggestions as for coax, cat5, etc let me know.

[Metralla]

Originally posted by b&w
JPS laboratories makes an interesting cable if your into really doing it to the max, though it isn't inexpensive.
It certainly isn't. It would be fun to have this though.

Regards,
Geoff

[mudbone]

b&w, thanks for the detailed response. I'll have to read this over. I will want some info on coax & cat-5.

THANKS!

mud-

[b&w]

What I should ask is this going to be a home theater system also? I should also talk about in relation to the electrical outlets some other issues. Your going to have to sit down with the wife or do it just by your lonesome with some blueprints or general drawings of the room the equipment is going to go in. Then with those drawings you need to mock up where all the equipment is going to go, that is against what walls. That's important to you of course because your going to want to know where exactly to put those electrical outlets and that's how its going to happen. Now keep in mind that reality is that you may change your room around through the years; however go with the assumption that the initial areas you decide to have your equipment is where you going to want the outlets to start with. Now if your using this as a home theater room also then their Weill be the considerations of where the sub-woofer will be and where the video unit will be.

Another thing in relation to the outlets will be how you lay them out behind the equipment. Depending on how many home runs and outlets you do, you may end up with quite a few of them behind the equipment. This could be an issue in the fact that they can only mount the electrical boxes every 16 or 18 inches, whatever the code is back there in relation to the cross beams. At any rate my point is if you end up needing say three single outlet boxes and you don't want to spread them out to those 16/18 inches for whatever reason you can just go higher up on the same beam. Another words must electricians are going to have them boxes mounted at a preset level say 12 inches off the floor. So then you could ask for a box at 12, 16, 24, or whatever level. That eliminates that issue that a builder may bring up.

I should also mention that any lighting in this room, especially halogen lighting with dimmers needs to have its own electrical run. Now all the lighting in the room can share the same run, but it cant be run off any of the runs that your using for equipment. This again will help cut down on the possibility of electrical noise working its way back into the system in the room.

[PMC7027]

I had my Music Room wired with 2 separate 20 amp circuits. Also, have the room set up so the other electrical outlets and lights are on a different circuit than the audio/video equipment. Fluorescent lights and dimmers can create problems with hum, etc. if they are on the same circuit as the AV equipment.

[-=Rudy=-]

If I remember electrical codes, 14 gauge wiring is standard for a 15 amp circuit, and 12 gauge for 20 amps. If I were having a house built today, I'd get no less than 12 gauge wiring even if they are 15 amp circuits. Ours is completely 14 gauge, except for the stove (which I wired myself). It might cost a little extra, but see if it is possible to get a separate 10 gauge line run out to your garage outlets. Don't know if you're a do-it-yourselfer, but I run an air compressor out there (or try to...the line just doesn't power it enough to restart the motor under load!! :mad: ), and the only outlet in the garage is on a 15 amp/14 gauge circuit that powers a lot of other outlets in the house. Good for other power tools you may use outdoors....there will be less voltage drop over the larger wiring runs. The way it looks right now, I'm going to have to pop another hole in the wall and run a dedicated 10 gauge line to the garage.

For that matter, see if they'll run 10 gauge to your listening room. :D If you don't want to be taken advantage of, run over to a Home Depot and compare pricing on, say, a 100 foot box of 14/2, 12/2 and 10/2 gauge wiring. It does take a little more muscle to pull larger wire, but it's worth it. I also don't know if your standard wall outlets will handle 10 gauge or not. (If they have screw terminals, it shouldn't be a problem.)

Cat5 is good for networking, but for the future, go with at least Cat5e or even Cat6. Coaxial, no less than RG6 in case you ever want to use a satellite system. (RG6 is made for higher frequencies.) Have a phone line run to your listening room and anywhere else you may need one--having DirecTV, I've had to go through some hoops to make sure they're all connected to the phone line all the time.

If your home has a basement, at least you will have a way to add additional cabling if you need it, like for rear speakers or other signal paths that you don't want running across the floor. Previous owners of our house had the basement drywalled, walls and ceiling. Impossible to run wiring, although I've been quite creative so far. :D

In my own experience looking at new houses, looking at mine (built in 1984), and knowing others who had them built, the builders will use the cheapest they can get by with, and will try to charge a premium when you step outside the norm.

[cosmikdebris]

Why not run a dedicated (right off the main) 100 Amp, 220V single phase service panel with 4 breakers (2 per phase), into the room you will be using. This set up will give you 4 circuits capable of drawing 20 Amps each all day long. It would also make installing/trouble-shooting circuits a breeze since the breakers would be right there in the theater.

[SamS]

Mud,

I'll echo exactly what b&w sez regarding the romex and breakers. Cosmikdebris has the best suggestion of all, a dedicated panel would be ideal if you want to put forth the extra effort and $$.

To reiterate what b&w mentioned, go ahead and get a whole-house surge protector installed at the panel. These are limited-lifespan devices that use metal-oxide-veristors to absorb spikes and surges. The one I got installs at the panel in the place of two breakers and has two green LEDs to let me know the panel is protected. When they go out, all the protection is used up. The style I got can be replaced rather easily, but some types are "hard-wired" into the panel and require an electrician visit to be replaced.

I also recommend 12-gauge romex and 20amp circuits run to the listening room. I agree you can go to Home Depot and get this stuff much cheaper than what they charge you. Just go get what you need and tell the electrician to install it all. Let him know you have special requirements for one room and it shouldn't ruffle him too bad. He should only charge maybe and extra $100-$200 to do the special stuff for your listening area.

[mudbone]

Guys, thanks for all the feedback. I really do appreciate it.

This room will be 20x30 with the 30 foot walls accessible from the from the other side. The room's in the downstairs area with unfinished basement on both sides of the 30 foot walls. I have a drawing of where the equipment goes so I'm covered there. This will be MY room so I doubt if I'll ever move anything because other than my system, cds, a sofa, and the ever-reliable Lazy-Boy :D there won't be anything to move. The wife has the upstairs to play around with. (My vinyl will go into one of the unfinished areas.)

I plan no halogen or dimmer switch controlled lights. Just lamps.

I'm fortunate that I know the builder who does excellent work and has let me buy my own supplies for some of the work that has been or needs to be done like ceiling fans, etc. The buy it yourself advice is an approach that will be used.

mud-

[-=Rudy=-]

Originally posted by cosmikdebris
Why not run a dedicated (right off the main) 100 Amp, 220V single phase service panel with 4 breakers (2 per phase), into the room you will be using. This set up will give you 4 circuits capable of drawing 20 Amps each all day long. It would also make installing/trouble-shooting circuits a breeze since the breakers would be right there in the theater.

I like this idea, even for a garage...but is it allowable in the electrical codes?

[b&w]

Originally posted by Rudy@A&MCorner


I like this idea, even for a garage...but is it allowable in the electrical codes?

Well that will be the pickle. Sense this is new construction any electrical work will have to be cleared by inspectors and codes. As such you can suggest to the electrician what you want to do, that is a complete separate service panel, of AT LEAST "100 Amp, 220V single phase service panel with 4 breakers (2 per phase)". He then would tell you specifically XYZ is what we have to do to do that and meet code, etc.
Now on a retrofit type situation your "supposed" to follow code, the electrician that is. However sense they don't have anyone from the city checking there work for code, that doesn't always happen and its easier to get your desires filled in exact.

[b&w]

Originally posted by mudbone
Guys, thanks for all the feedback. I really do appreciate it.

This room will be 20x30 with the 30 foot walls accessible from the from the other side. The room's in the downstairs area with unfinished basement on both sides of the 30 foot walls. I have a drawing of where the equipment goes so I'm covered there. This will be MY room so I doubt if I'll ever move anything because other than my system, cds, a sofa, and the ever-reliable Lazy-Boy :D there won't be anything to move. The wife has the upstairs to play around with. (My vinyl will go into one of the unfinished areas.)

I plan no halogen or dimmer switch controlled lights. Just lamps.

I'm fortunate that I know the builder who does excellent work and has let me buy my own supplies for some of the work that has been or needs to be done like ceiling fans, etc. The buy it yourself advice is an approach that will be used.

mud-

Mud,

Just for you information, most likely the builder will be "subing" the electrical work to someone else. It's a specialty field so to speak and requires specific licensing so most likely that is what will happen. If you should meet an electrician who is a little um, non receptive to using specific equipment you want, just fall back to the its for the "audio quality" or "audiophile" suggestion. That will almost always remove any objections they have as long as the equipment will work with the necessary codes.


So was this audio only or audio/video room?

[mudbone]

Originally posted by b&w


Mud,

Just for you information, most likely the builder will be "subing" the electrical work to someone else. It's a specialty field so to speak and requires specific licensing so most likely that is what will happen. If you should meet an electrician who is a little um, non receptive to using specific equipment you want, just fall back to the its for the "audio quality" or "audiophile" suggestion. That will almost always remove any objections they have as long as the equipment will work with the necessary codes.


So was this audio only or audio/video room?

b&w, I hear you. My comment was directed towards making sure the builder assures that the sub does what I want. But I do agree I have to make sure it gets done. I'm confident the builder will do that. He doesn't build that many homes and uses quality materials so he has a reputation to maintain. I spoke with several people he built homes for and all were very happy with the results.

A/V with a primary emphasis on the A part.

mud-

[Tullman]

Originally posted by cosmikdebris
Why not run a dedicated (right off the main) 100 Amp, 220V single phase service panel with 4 breakers (2 per phase), into the room you will be using. This set up will give you 4 circuits capable of drawing 20 Amps each all day long. It would also make installing/trouble-shooting circuits a breeze since the breakers would be right there in the theater.

I ran six dedicated circuits in my listening room, it cost about $400.00 for the job. In Audiophile terms $400.00 for this kind of upgrade is cheap. I have no need for a powerstrip and the system sounds better than ever! As we say here in Boston, it is pissah!:D