So I think I want a Sony PCM M10!

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Wmacky, Oct 10, 2010.

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  1. Wmacky

    Wmacky Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Yes sir I do!

    http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PCM-M10-...7WJU/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1286757907&sr=8-4

    24/ 96 recording, and play back! Oh yeah!

    I'm not sure why, or what I will do with it's but it's a Gadget guy's wet dream.:righton:

    I've always loved recorders ever since I got one for my 10th birthday, I think I might want to do some nature recording, like thunder storms, and such. I also here that it makes one hell of a high rez Portable player. Make an Ipod look like a toy.:angel:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFjgUUT9ulU
     
  2. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    You can't buy one good microphone for the cost of this thing ($230). You want to do nature recordings, you need a couple of Schoeps or Sennheiser XY mikes and one of these:

    [​IMG]

    http://www.sounddevices.com/products/702.htm

    That's a real recorder with real preamps. The $230 Sony is like a big digital Walkman -- OK for dictation or interviews, but I wouldn't do music or sound effects with it.

    If you can't afford to buy one, just rent or borrow one. They're out there if you look around, and a whole kit might cost you less than $100 rental for an entire weekend.
     
    kevinsinnott likes this.
  3. Wmacky

    Wmacky Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Don't be so fast to judge. I'm currently reading a 150+ page thread ( at a field recordists forum) with people getting incredible results when using external XY mics. I know professionals disdain hobbyist gear, but these seem worthy of much more than dictation. I've heard the samples! Do you have any experience with the M10 at all?
     
  4. MikeyH

    MikeyH Stamper King

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    I've heard a recording of a small jazz combo in Yoshis Oakland, done with the similar Zoom H2 recorder. It's really good, and the venue sound is very convincing.

    No, it's not got real microphones.. but these are getting very good. This sort of thing is going the same way as digital HD video recorders.
     
  5. Wmacky

    Wmacky Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I also was hoping to do some recording more than once! That sound design stuff is top notch, and I guess just a step below Nagra? Anyway, It's my understanding that external pre's sound good with this Sony unit as the "Line in" has great specs. Heck, I've heard great stuff with the internal Mics, and pres when in a pinch. My preference will be a decent "starter" condenser XY stereo mic.
     
  6. Tone

    Tone Senior Member

    :righton: ..... the real deal, with good preamps. Built like a brick.

    I currently use a pair of Schoeps with millennia media preamps and a masterlink. But I'm switching to a sound-devices series soon.

    Those little things are nice, but don't have the pre amps for serious pro work.
     
  7. In Wisconsin, too! :righton:
     
  8. salleno

    salleno Forum Resident

    Location:
    So. Cal.
    I have heard some real professional results done with both the H2 and H4n.

    While that 702 is nice (and expensive), for fun stuff I would go for an H4n. The H4n is like a four-track studio in the palm of your hand.
     
  9. ROLO46

    ROLO46 Forum Resident

    The plastic jobs are fun and disposable
    The steel and aluminium ones do the biz in all winds and weathers
    I was using my SD702 and a pair of BBC PGS ribbons for a Lennon tribute track last week.
    The pres had more than enough gain for these low level dynamic devices from the 50's and hi rez record rendered the track in stunning detail.
    The pres on the plastic recorders could not compete.
    Earlier in the year I was 'Dawn Chorusing' with a Sennheiser MS pair, the timer start/stop and rugged build enabled remote record in my garden in various climatic conditions that would challenge the plastic jobs.
     
    kevinsinnott likes this.
  10. Dubmart

    Dubmart Senior Member

    Location:
    Bristol, England
    Slightly off topic, but can anyone recommend a cheap, but excellent mic pre that would work with my Korg MR-1000, though at the moment the only pair of mics I have are a couple of vintage Reslo ribbons, so are there any cheap mics to get as well or is half decent recording still expensive?
     
  11. Jim T

    Jim T Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mars
    I have tried for years to make good recordings with cheap gear and it does not work. You especially can't cheap out on mic pres. The Grace 201 can handle ribbon mics.

    http://www.gracedesign.com/products/m201/m201.htm

    If it is only a hobby like for me you are stuck using what you can afford. I just order a pair of Rode NT-1A's that I hope are a huge inprovment for my acoustic University recordings. It is hard when your are compairing your work to people who have over $10 grand worth of gear to work with. I will bet with a good mic pre and the mics you have that you could make very good recordings with either the Sony or the Tascam DR-2d that I am thinking about.
     
  12. bdiament

    bdiament Producer, Engineer, Soundkeeper

    Location:
    New York
    It would seem quite obvious that a $230 device is probably not going to match the performance of more expensive devices. I don't believe that is the OP's point.

    Yes, I'd prefer to go out with a ULN-8 and a matched pair of Earthworks mics but the combination costs around $8000 (add some mic cables and a power source, for more money and they'll do an even better job ;-}).

    Unless I'm mistaken, he's talking about having some fun with a device that won't break the bank. Sounds like a great idea to me.

    Best regards,
    Barry
    www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
    www.barrydiamentaudio.com
     
  13. Wmacky

    Wmacky Forum Resident Thread Starter


    Barry, you nailed it! I just thought it would be fun to record some of these Florida thunder storms. I'm no proffesional, and may only use it one time. The great thing with the Sony is that if I don't care for storm recording, or I want to upgrade, it would still make a nice little Hi Rez "Ipod"!

    Right now i'm debating between it, and the bigger Sony D50.
     
  14. kevinsinnott

    kevinsinnott Forum Coffeeologist

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    I own a couple of different portable digital audio recorders. I own an Edirol R44 modified by Oade Brothers. It's a four channel recorder and does pretty well with its own internal stereo mikes (omnis) or higher output external mikes. The mic preamps are its weakness and mine are modified. They would not be a good match for ribbons, dynamics or low-output condensers.

    My other unit is an M-audio Microtrack II. It does quite well with its T-mike, and decently with a higher output stereo mike like a Shure VP88.

    Both units accept external preamps but that rather defeats the purpose doesn't it?

    I've heard good things about the Sony and about a couple of Marantz units, as far as having decent preamps. I recall seeing some published numbers and IIRC, none came close to the Sound Devices, except a now out of production Sony Minidisk recorder.

    I've also played with the Zoom. If you're recording music, the music will probably be loud enough to nullify the preamp issues. Perhaps odd to non-hobbyists, recording natural bird sounds is more revealing of mic preamp limitations. You need all the gain you can get.

    Oade Brothers' site has some useful information.
     
  15. Jim T

    Jim T Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mars
    If his ribbon mics are a decent quality then you are only a decent mic pre away from great fun. The problem is that you can have great fun, but we always come home and are stuck compairing OUR work to the very good recordings we listen to, and that can be somewhat disconcerting.

    I know what I am working with, but you still want to make a great recording. Working in 2496 does help. I have heard that the Tascam DR-2d sounds pretty good, but you must use outboard mic pres and mic to do well.
     
  16. ROLO46

    ROLO46 Forum Resident

    The plastic jobs with built in electret mics are good snapshot recorders, ie an event is rendered.
    The latter minidisc recorders has excellent pres but needed good external expensive electret mics for fidelity and dynamics.
    If your recorder has mic powering this may be a way to good musical/natural history recording resolution.
     
  17. william shears

    william shears Senior Member

    Location:
    new zealand
    Be aware (for hi-rez playback) these sort of devices suck lots of power. Take any stats on battery life with a pinch of salt.
     
  18. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Thanks, Jim. That is exactly, 100% my own experience as well over the last 30 years.

    (What am I saying... it's been 40 years since I was a teenager trying to make my first recordings. Time flies.)

    If you rent a decent recorder and a couple of mikes for a hundred bucks for a weekend, that won't break the bank, either.

    I've tried the Zoom and the Edirol and the Sony, and all this stuff is just toys. It's just a higher-tech version of the high-end Sony cassette decks of the 1980s and the MiniDisc decks of the 1990s. The preamps and mikes are what kill the idea -- not the recorder. The 24/96 capability of this machine are worthless if you don't have a good front end for it.

    A cheap recorder with great preamps and great microphones will still sound pretty good. And that you could record on your laptop. (Assuming you're not being chased by an elephant or trudging through a swamp.)
     
  19. JonP

    JonP Active Member

    No reviews or photos on the net can you prepare you (or more specifically they did not prepare me) for the huge difference when you hold the D50 in your hand versus the M10. The M10 is a much lower price point and before powering them on you can see why they are so different in price. I was quite shocked that the M10 carried the Sony brand name given how incredibly cheaply it was built. Seriously it was the cheapest most plasticky device carrying the Sony brand name I have ever seen in my life - and that includes my $30 bedside transistor radio.

    The big advantage the M10 has over the D50 though is very long battery life (40 hours versus about 20) as well as far better sound out of it's line and headphone jacks, particularly at 48 khz and beyond. The D50 sounds terrible out of the line and headphone jacks - the sound becomes very fatiguing and coarse and anything beyond 24/44.1. Perhaps the DACs are very old technology or something. The M10 sounds fine in these respects though.

    The D50 would be better for actual recording from the inbuild mics though and I get very good results from it, but no better than my other recorders either. But as I said in another thread, I don't recommend either of these Sony models. I recommend the TASCAM DR-100 - ugly as it might be and maybe not having the big-name Sony brand on it, it is the best field recorder I have owned and easily good enough to do service in the home environment as well. And you can connect XLR mics directly up to it if you want more flexibility and better quality down the track.

    The newer DR-08 is an excellent model as well and really sounds great for playback but with one terrible flaw - absolutely horrific battery life. I have no idea what TASCAM were thinking (or more accurately were not thinking) would be acceptable, but 1.5 hours total up-time from two alkaline batteries isn't to me...at least the top of the line DR-100 has dual power - it will run off the Lithium rechargeable and use the AA as "reserve" power (or vice versa). Still not the recording time of the Sony D50, but as I say, the D50 does not bear the sonic rewards that the TASCAM units do. On the other hand, if you just want to go out and do ocassional recordings, in my opinion even the DR-08 is better than either of the Sony devices. And cheaper too. The DR-08 would be a fantastic device if TASCAM had figured out how to make the batteries last.

    I suppose you and Jim will get whatever you both want in any case, but the DR-100 really stands out above all the other field recorders in my opinion and experience - it has pro written all over it and the sound and flexibility in all respects justifies that. One just needs to remember to do the firmware update that enables 24/96 recording amongst other things.
     
  20. ellaguru

    ellaguru Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milan
    the m10 is fine for some casual recording/documenting things, but be warned about it in a concert situation...you'll need external mics an a quality mic pre amp to make it all right..
    i use a sonosax sxm2 and either akg 414's or microtech gefell mg210s...or both at the same time now that i have a busman mod edirol r4..
     
  21. Wmacky

    Wmacky Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Well I got the M10 for now, and it sounds just fine . I now have a Rode NT4 XY Stereo MIc on the way, and I'm looking at adding a stereo pair of AT4022's & T-bar. This will get me started, and learning. Next I'm looking at adding a Sound Devices "MixPre" preamp for the super clean gobs of gain. I may however decide to upgrade to a better " all in one", and kepp the little Sony for back up. BTW I have some of my rips on it, and it does sound better that a Ipod!
     
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