View Full Version : CLASSIC TURNTABLE GIANTS ENGLAND verses GERMANY
alexpop
10-13-2003, 08:12 AM
The Mighty Garrard 301 was born in the UK in the early fifties.
Made from the remnant's of second world war II Spitfire airplane's.
Steel molded and shaped to spin golden discs. As the swinging sixties
kicked in Garrard gave birth to the 401. A monstrous beast of audio
pleasure Sgt Pepper never sounded better.
In Germany the THORNES 124,(some say a copy of the 301, and even
better!!!) and then there"s the EMT (..........................) Fill in the blank
space.
WHO still cuts the mustard in the new century?
The BRITISH machines (In fine working order) or the GERMAN(IFWO).
YOU DECIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Any modern German TTs that I know of are quite expensive - I don't think they make anything below $2,000-3000. They may sound awesome, but I never really checked them out considering the cost.
I used to think Pro-ject were German TTs, but they are not; they are designed in Austria and built in the Czech Republic.
Thorens could still be active... Dual is not, AFAIK.
alexpop
10-13-2003, 09:26 AM
I know these new baby's are hot!!!!!!!!!
They will burn your britches that's for sure. "Hot dog jumping frog"
But we are talking CLASSICS, beautys from the first half of the 20th
century.
Tweaked, pinched, prodded, loved. You can restore them (and you don't
have to break the bank of monti carlo in the process)
For not that much!
"KEEP SHINING THROUGH...................."
"WHAT AM I TO DO CANT HELP IT"
butch
10-13-2003, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by alexpop
The Mighty Garrard 301 was born in the UK in the early fifties.
Made from the remnant's of second world war II Spitfire airplane's.
Steel molded and shaped to spin golden discs. As the swinging sixties
kicked in Garrard gave birth to the 401. A monstrous beast of audio
pleasure Sgt Pepper never sounded better.
In Germany the THORNES 124,(some say a copy of the 301, and even
better!!!) and then there"s the EMT ( ) Fill in the blank space.
WHO still cuts the mustard in the new century?
The BRITISH machines (In fine working order) or the GERMAN(IFWO).
YOU DECIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Alex you must mean British NOT English.We don't call BMW a Bavarian car but a German car!!HAHAHAHA!!Only joking.The British have an edge over the Germans in that the Rega/P3/Planar 3 is one of the most cost effective turntables of all time.And it performs at the level as some turntables that are twice as much.German Companies make good audiophile standard products BUT pricewise British companies have chumped them across the board.That is the question....cost and quality or just quality.This is where British turntables have an edge(Rega giving them that edge) at a relatively gentle price.Those Rega tonearms are also relative bargains as well.This is not a knock against German turntables(Thorens are well made) but across the board Britain has a slight edge(also on inexpensive amps as well)over the whole world as well.I know,I know the Czech projects are great ,too BUT we're talking about German and British products.
Tony Plachy
10-13-2003, 02:17 PM
Guys, In November 2002 as part of its 40th Anniversary issue Stereophile listed what it thought was the 100 most important audio products since 1962. The product they thought was the most important over the last 40 years was the Linn Sondek LP12. I believe that the vast majority of vinyl enthusiast would agree that the modern age of the TT began with the Linn. I guess this means that the Scots rule. :D
Originally posted by ALP
Guys, In November 2002 as part of its 40th Anniversary issue Stereophile listed what it thought was the 100 most important audio products since 1962. The product they thought was the most important over the last 40 years was the Linn Sondek LP12.
My view is that the LP12 was important through its marketing, not its sound quality.
Before Ivor T made his copy of the Thorens TD150 and AR turntables we judged turntables by their rumble, wow and flutter measurements. It never occurred to most of us that they could sound different to each other. Ivor T persuaded us otherwise and the Linn legend was born.
Some of us took on board that TTs could sound different but thought that other TTs sounded as good or better than the Linn.
The Linn was a copy. OK, the build quality was a little better than the TD150 or AR but there were better decks then and there are better decks now. Hats off to Ivor T and his marketing department though.
Cafe Jeff
10-13-2003, 06:18 PM
My understanding was that the 301 Spitfire was a ripoff of the TD124 Messerschmitt and not the other way around. Am I mistaken? Jeff
audio
10-13-2003, 06:25 PM
UK classics, baby!!!
alexpop
10-13-2003, 11:50 PM
XTC.
Cool pic of the UK Hydraulic Reference Turntable 1964. It was featured
in A Clockwork Orange and (IMHO) it is in one of the best scenes in the
futuristic film!
"Ground control to major earth"
audio
10-14-2003, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by alexpop
XTC.
Cool pic of the UK Hydraulic Reference Turntable 1964. It was featured
in A Clockwork Orange and (IMHO) it is in one of the best scenes in the
futuristic film!
"Ground control to major earth"
Actually, this is a later '70s model and is made by J A Michell. The one in "A Clockwork Orange" was the original transcriptors model with the pod feet, and yes, I've rented the film just to drool over his stereo before! I am now fortunate enough to own this exact turntable.
alexpop
10-14-2003, 01:33 AM
Thanks for the correction Skylarking.
audio
10-14-2003, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by alexpop
Thanks for the correction Skylarking.
Don't mention it, alexpoop.
Originally posted by Cafe Jeff
My understanding was that the 301 Spitfire was a ripoff of the TD124 Messerschmitt and not the other way around. Am I mistaken?
Yes, I'm proud to report that you are mistaken.
According to my research the 301 Spitfire was introduced in 1954 while the TD124 Messerchmitt wasn't released until 1957.
Incidentally, if anyone's interested, a UK company called Loricraft Audio (
http://garrard501.com) will supply or renovate a superb 301 or 401 in a modern plinth that can compete with today's best. They also make their own modern version, the 501. Don't ask the price though. As Rolls Royce dealers used to say (before RR were bought out by the Germans) "If you have to ask the price you probably can't afford it".
As for availability of the TD124, I believe that thousands of them were dropped on London during the Blitz.
Cafe Jeff
10-14-2003, 06:00 AM
Originally posted by 7_V
Yes, I'm proud to report that you are mistaken.
According to my research the 301 Spitfire was introduced in 1954 while the TD124 Messerchmitt wasn't released until 1957.
That is good news, as I am a proud owner of a 301 in want of a new plinth!
Incidentally, if anyone's interested, a UK company called Loricraft Audio (
http://garrard501.com) will supply or renovate a superb 301 or 401 in a modern plinth that can compete with today's best.
Terry Sullivan of Loricraft is a true English nutter. I have written him at least three times asking for prices and answer came there not. I will be building my own plinth.
They also make their own modern version, the 501. Don't ask the price though. As Rolls Royce dealers used to say (before RR were bought out by the Germans) "If you have to ask the price you probably can't afford it".
True enough, but I guarantee that the new V12 RR's will smoke the trusty V8 Rollers of yore. Jeff
As for availability of the TD124, I believe that thousands of them were dropped on London during the Blitz.
Which Blitz was this?
thermionic
10-14-2003, 10:16 AM
I've heard good things about EMTs too but I haven't heard one yet. I am interested and wonder if you could give us some basic info? For example, how are they driven, belt, idler wheel? What material is the platter made from and how heavy is it? Presumably it's not sprung, or is it?
I may have missed something on the web site but can't tell the answers from the photos.
Thanks.
thermionic
10-14-2003, 04:10 PM
EMT are very much DIRECT DRIVE, Thorens made the 524 based on a EMT 938 (I mention this because they can be found for less than EMTs) . I had the pleasure of meeting Rolf (current Thorens proprietor) at a show a while back. He informed me that he started out in the business working on EMTs, and claimed that they produce enough torque to pull a car! An EMT 950 weighs somewhere in the region of 100kg, so Rolf's claim is probably correct!
You can find EMTs on ebay (if you dare...), failing that check around small / hospital radio stations etc if you want one that won't kill your bank balance.
EMT were a truly innovative company, some of their digital studio gear made in '75 still fetches crazy money, how many digital devices from '75 are still desirable? They had a philosophy that nothing should be superceded, hence the breadboard layout enabling folk to upgrade whenever a new circuit came out. I have a Christmas card they sent to dealers in the '60s that stated this policy was for environmental reasons, citing numerous early studies into polution etc.
EMT, TRUE PIONEERS!!
BTW, if you see one on evilbay you'll notice a LOT of people bid for it!
Sounds interesting. Do you have one that's working? If so, what sort of arm does it use?
thermionic
10-14-2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by 7_V
Sounds interesting. Do you have one that's working?
I WISH!! One day! I have been tempted, nearly, but can't justify it on the grounds that my studio needs the moolah rather than a TT at this time :-(
If so, what sort of arm does it use?
Please go back and explore Stefano Pasini's website from the link, it's a mine of info, you'll not be disappointed!
Cheers!
alexpop
10-15-2003, 12:16 AM
"Silver threads and golden needles"
Thanks 7_V & Thermionic for cool pix and hot info!
MARKM
10-15-2003, 06:13 AM
Alex,
Das TD124 - das ist echt, ein “Gepanzert Plattenspieler” if ever there was one - much as I admire the Garrards.
And Stefano Pasini is the guru for sure - if anyone has any EMT/THORENS questions.
Where are you in Germany?
Regards,
MarkM
Windsor / UK
alexpop
10-15-2003, 06:55 AM
Markm,
Sure the TD124 ist Gepanzert (Bullet proof).
I prefer the Garrard 301 for the cosmetics "Ist mehr geil"
The EMT models are a tad antiseptic, clinical and cold in their appearance
(that could be construed as sexy!)
alexpop
10-15-2003, 11:15 PM
GARRARD:::::::::::::::::::::::::::THORNE S::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::E MT
Y O U .... .................................. D E C I D E
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