Here's an idea for a "former favorites" list; to my knowledge this hasn't been done:

[R. Cat Conrad]

Favorite artists who've either lost their chops but continue to attempt performing live and record new music OR still competent musicians who perform in thrown together nostalgia groups that hire on non-original members with dismally poor results. Call this the "musicians who should pack it in & call it a day" list:

Guitar: Mick Ralphs; (close 2nd; sadly) - Peter Green; (3rd) Eric Clapton
Vocals: Eric Burdon (close 2nd & 3rd) - Steve Walsh; Greg Lake
Bass: Stu Cook (i.e., w/o John Fogerty); (close 2nd) - Mel Schacher (w/o Mark Farner)
Drums: Doug Clifford (i.e., w/o John Foberty); (2nd) - Don Brewer (w/o Mark Farner)

This sort of listing may result in a bit of controversy, but all lists are prone to subjective assessment and disagreement. Nevertheless, I'm sure that there are many others who are worthy of being added to this subjective list; so, what are you waiting for? :D

Cheers,
Robert Cat Conrad

[Holy Zoo]

Don't forget Elliot Easton, guitarist for The Cars, who is now touring with the afformentioned Stu Cook & Doug Clifford in Creedence Clearwater Revisited.

[SVL]

Deep Purple should have quit some time ago, probably as early as 1985, and I am sorry I have to say that :(. What they are doing now is fine, it is just not DP.

[Dave]

IMHO Deep Purple should have packed it in when Ian Gillan left as they were never even close to that kind of excellent singing/songwriting again.

Sad but true (sigh):(

[Holy Zoo]

Oh... how could I forget this: Eddie Van Halen.

Eddie without David is just pointless.

[SVL]

Originally posted by Dave
IMHO Deep Purple should have packed it in when Ian Gillan left as they were never even close to that kind of excellent singing/songwriting again.

Sad but true (sigh):(

Well, I think they had at least two good albums after he left in 1973, that is Burn and to a lesser extent Stormbringer. I wish EMI remastered those in their Anniversary series (unless Steve can do it, of course:)), only I don't think Roger Glover would feel comfortable doing that because he was not in the band on those albums.

Now, when Ritchie Blackmore left (was it for the fifth...no, for the second time :) ) they should have called it quits IMO.

[R. Cat Conrad]

SVL: >>> "Deep Purple should have quit some time ago, probably as early as 1985, and I'm sorry I have to say that :( , what they are doing now is fine, it is just not DP." <<<

:) That's exactly what I meant about subjectivity: FTR, I've seen Deep Purple live on 3 occasions, the first with Tommy Bolin back in '76, then with Ritchie and the other four MkII era members around 1985 when they headlined the Texas Jam, and finally(?) last year with Steve Morse and the four remaining MkII members of DP. Of these three performances, the last one, hands-down, was the best! OTOH, presuming your comment about DP disbanding reflects upon the quality of the band's current studio output (i.e., which I'll agree is less than compelling than much of the music produced during their hey-day) I would almost agree with you that Deep Purple should've folded when Blackie unceremoniously departed back in 1993.

As a touring band though, I beg to differ with you about the sound of DP in it's present incarnation.

Fortunately, I picked up the Australia '99 DVD on a lark and then went out of my way to witness first hand the phenomenal fret-work of Mr. Blackmore's equally accomplished permanent replacement, Steve Morse [Note: For comparisons sake, I recommend watching the amazing on-stage implosion of the Blackmore era band in "Hell or High Water" the video which captures their last concert together, then purchasing or renting either the Australia '99 and Bombay Calling DVDs].

As a bit of background, Steve Morse is a living legend who's played in groups as diverse as the eclectic jazz-rock fusion band Dixie Dregs and as a replacement in for Kerry Livgren in stadium prog-rock outfit Kansas and for the past seven years one of the world's heaviest rocking bands, Deep Purple. The incomparable Mr. Morse balances his fiery virtuosity with crowd-pleasing warmth and humility unseen among most other nimble-fingered axe legends.

In all seriousness, before passing final judgment on the current DP line-up, I strongly urge you to pick up one or more of the available videos featuring Mr. Morse and, if the opportunity presents itself, check them out live! ;)

Respectfully,
Robert Cat Conrad

:p

[Dave]

Holy Zoo,

Sorry Jeff I don't agree with ya on the Van Halen reasoning.

Admittedly they were on fire with 1984 but after Sammy learned to sing in DLR style I thought they were still really good.

Like Mr. Harrison said though "All things must pass" after Sammy left that was it for VH.:(

[Gary]

Originally posted by SVL
...I don't think Roger Glover would feel comfortable doing that because he was not in the band on those albums.


I heard that Roger said that he *would not* remaster any albums where he was not in the band. Why? It would not benefit him because he would not get royalties. Makes sense.

My vote: Ever see the line up of Lynyrd Skynyrd? Lets see now, Gary Rossington and Billy Powell are the only originals left. Which goes against their contract. Replacements have come from the Outlaws, Blackfoot & others.

Still Great live. They've lost it on CD, sad to say. :(

[Holy Zoo]

Originally posted by Dave
Holy Zoo,

Sorry Jeff I don't agree with ya on the Van Halen reasoning.

Admittedly they were on fire with 1984 but after Sammy learned to sing in DLR style I thought they were still really good.

Like Mr. Harrison said though "All things must pass" after Sammy left that was it for VH.:(

Oh, I don't think VH with Sammy was terrible... just not very inspired.

Regardless... it's already been... what... 6 years (!) since Sammy left! And VH3 really was horrid.

[Cousin It]

Originally posted by SVL


Well, I think they had at least two good albums after he left in 1973, that is Burn and to a lesser extent Stormbringer. I wish EMI remastered those in their Anniversary series (unless Steve can do it, of course:)), only I don't think Roger Glover would feel comfortable doing that because he was not in the band on those albums.


That's correct !!
Roger Glover doesn't want to be involved with the reissue of the DP albums he wasn't on but EMI certainly want to do deluxe editions of the MK3/4 DP stuff it is just a case of who will do it.

[Patrick M]

Originally posted by Dave
Admittedly they were on fire with 1984 but after Sammy learned to sing in DLR style I thought they were still really good.

Like Mr. Harrison said though "All things must pass" after Sammy left that was it for VH.:(

I don't think Sammy ever sang in DLR style. I see it like this:

Sammy -- better singer, way more range, stupid lyrics, not much of a showman, some of the concerts Eddie was too drunk to be useful

DLR -- not as good a singer, much better showman, funnier and more diverse lyrics, most of the time the band was too drunk to be useful (seen the Us festival tape? Ugh.)

I take issue with the 'hang it up after Sammy' comment as well. "Balance" was absolutely horrible, far and away the worst in the VH catalog. [The best Van Hagar album is probably 5150, which suffers from thin production and lack of Ed's signature tones -- probably due to the Steinbergers he was slinging all over that album.] The live album with Sammy is horrible as well.

The album that everyone skips over that was, IMO, really good is VH III. In every way, it blows "Balance" away. I was skeptical of Cherone, but he is a hell of a singer, and seemed to pump some new energy into Ed's writing. It's not on par with a "Fair Warning" or "1984," but it is damn good.

Also, with Gary in fold, they were playing more old stuff like "Romeo Delight" and not doing a half-*** job of it like they did with Sammy.

Anyway, it looks like DLR will be back in the band. Ed's health and 15 layers of lawyers have kept them from it thus far.

[Claus]

Yeah... Deep Purple have recorded 3 very good records. In Rock-Fireball-Machine Head. The rest... average!!!

Sammy Hagar was a great singer... til he joined Van Halen! Anyway he had a very good live record... All Night Long belongs to the best live record what I've ever heard.

I also like UFO's Strangers In the Night... it blows away Eddie Van Halen!!! Michael Schenker on the top... at this time!:p

[Pat]

Hey Claus,

I was just thinking about UFO's - Strangers In The Night album this morning (must be something in the air!). What a great group...and fantastic LIVE album. Bring's me back to high school days!

[Patrick M]

Mr. Cat Conrad,

I am in agreement with essentially all you have said about DP. "Abandon" and "Purpendicular" are not on par with a "Machine Head," but they are much better than, say, "The Battle Rages On" and other 80s and 90s stuff DP put out.

Morse is absolutely phenomenal. Although I haven't seen him with DP, I have seen him thrice variously with SMB and the Dregs and he always leaves me with my jaw on the floor. [Side note: Morse came in as the permanent replacement to the touring Joe Satriani, so it's not as if DP has ever been without a great guitarist.] Everyone in DP seems to be having a great time and the only thing I notice that has suffered from the years is Gillan's voice.

I have the Australia '99 DVD and recently watched it. The little riff-ology that Morse plays before "Smoke on the H20" is a mind-blower.

I've been listening to the two "Liquid Tension Experiment" albums (3/5 of Dream Theater + Tony Levin) a lot lately. Pettruci is another mind-bending guitarist very much in the Morse school, but more accomplished technically (if you can believe that).

Still waiting for ED to chime in on this thread. :D

[ED in NY]

Thanks for that intro Patrick !

I'd have to say the biggest joke out there performing right now is Grand Fake Railroad. Yes I said Fake.

Currently Don Brewer and Mel Schaker are performing under the name "Grand Funk Railroad" without Mark Farner and I gotta say it ain't GFR without Mark. To replace him they have Bruce Kulick formerly of KISS and Max Carl formerly of 38 Special.

As a long time fan of GFR I still love Don & Mel, but am disappointed in their decision to perform as GFR without Mark. It is decieving to the fan who buys a ticket expecting to see Grand Funk Railroad and instead gets Don, Mel & "some other guys."

As for Mark, I hope he never quits, because he's still out there doin' what he does best. 32 years later the man can still rock with the best of 'em !

As for Deep Purple, since Steve Morse joined the band in 1995 it is the best they have been since 1974. Steve Morse definitely breathed new life into this band. No disrespect to Mr. Blackmore but his heart was not into rock music anymore, he bowed out and followed the path he wanted to. As for DP they are still tight. Jon Lord is second to no one as a musician. Check out his recent solo album "Pictured Within" to see what I mean. It's gotta be one of my favorite new releases in the past 10 years. He and Morse compliment each other so well.

DP peaked in 1973 with Machine Head / Made In Japan. After that it was still good but slowly deteriorating. By 1975 they were so wasted that they were a parody.

When they got back together in 1984 they were good, but not great and it showed in their live shows. Between 1986 with "House Of Blue Light" and 1993 with "The Battle Rages On" it had reached parody status again. But in 1995 they returned with "Purpendicular" and I think that was the best album they did since "Who Do We Think We Are". As I've said Steve Morse is the key element here. He & Jon Lord were meant for each other (musically).

I admit Ian's voice ain't what it used to be (I don't expect to here Child In Time in the set list) but it isn't bad. Roger Glover & Ian Paice still play as good as ever. At least Paul McCartney and Gov't Mule think so as to include them both on their recent recordings.

Deep Purple is one band of "Old Guys" that can still do it and do it well. I hope they continue on the path they're on.

As for Grand Fake Railroad, no Mark no Funk.

End Of Rant - time for a drink

Best - ED

[ED in NY]

For anyone I've offended by the "time for a drink" remark, I want you all to know I'm addicted to Grape Crush. Always a case in the refrigerator !

Best - ED

[Uncle Al]

This thread is a perfect example of why buisiness and music don't mix. Why shouldn't ANY musician be able to perform with whomever they wish to? Maybe Page and Plant would have enjoyed the presence of Jones on those sessions - but they may have been pressured to call it "Led Zeppelin". Maybe David Lee and Eddie Van wanted to make some more music - but the pressure of a "VAN HALEN" renunion was too much. Maybe Eric would LIKE to do a few things with Jack and/or Ginger, but why do they have to call it "Cream"? Maybe John and Paul could have written a few tunes without the shadow of the Beatles hanging over their heads......

It seems to me that the "weight" of a NAME act (Lynrd Skynard is another good example) sometimes is a hinderance to musicans. Just enjoy the music for what it is - not the name on the label.

Although - I admit it is unfair to label a legendary act, when the legend is no where to be found (Creedence Clearwater Revisted).

[SVL]

Originally posted by R. Cat Conrad


In all seriousness, before passing final judgment on the current DP line-up, I strongly urge you to pick up one or more of the available videos featuring Mr. Morse and, if the opportunity presents itself, check them out live! ;)



I meant no disrespect for Steve Morse at all:); in fact, I think he may be one of the most accomplished players out there today, and, unlike Blackmore, a nice person to be in a band with, judging from other members' interviews. Blackmore himself spoke very highly of Steve Morse in one of his rare comments for the press.

I did have all albums and DVDs of the current line-up except for Live in Bombay. They are fun to watch, it is just that the new material doesn't do it for me:).

I still think that much, if not all of DP was about the amazing chemistry between the MkII musicians. While I do not mean to belittle the contribution of other members here, what Blackmore , Gillan and Lord could do together when the act "blended" properly can hardly be matched.

As for MkIII, while no Gillan by any stretch of imagination, IMO at the time David Coverdale was not a complete joke that he became later, but a promising singer with some feeling for the blues. He may still show that occassionally. MkIII fans may want to check out Whitesnake - Starkers in Tokyo, which is a very well recorded "unplugged" album featuring just Coverdale and Adrian Vandenberg on acoustic. Recommended - if you can stand Whitesnake ballads, that is:).

[Patrick M]

Originally posted by SVL
I did have all albums and DVDs of the current line-up except for Live in Bombay. They are fun to watch, it is just that the new material doesn't do it for me:).

In that case, you can still enjoy the latest lineup tear through the classics live. There are worse things that hearing Steve play "Speed King," "Fireball," and "Maybe I'm a Leo." :D

[SVL]

Originally posted by Patrick M


In that case, you can still enjoy the latest lineup tear through the classics live. There are worse things that hearing Steve play "Speed King," "Fireball," and "Maybe I'm a Leo." :D

Well, I do keep the Australian DVD:)

I should also agree with comments above on how Gillan's voice has deteriorated. Sadly, it must have been inevitable considering the way he (ab)used it all these years. The same is largely the case with Robert Plant, I'm afraid:(.

Some other singers are an exception, however, and not just Tom Waits :) - Dio is still going strong, and Klaus Meine from the Scorpions - I think the guy still sounds about the same as he did in the 70s. The band's music has endured in its mediocrity too, IMO. :D

[ED in NY]

I can honestly say one guy who has continued to improve as he has gotten older is Glenn Hughes. His recent stuff has been really good. I his current release "Building The Machine" is pretty cool. Good stuff !

Best - ED

[Jeffrey]

Hi,

Originally posted by R. Cat Conrad
Call this the "musicians who should pack it in & call it a day" list:

Guitar: ; (3rd) Eric Clapton


Hey Robert,

As ya said, this is a matter of opinion. I would hate to see Clapton pack it in & call it a day. Many musicians cycle and go thru phases that end up creating a new style that is worthy of listen. How many times has Mr. Zimmerman done this? Personally, I think Robert Zimmerman is doing some of his best work at this moment.

Clapton has great talent and is relatively young compared to many blues musicians still touring. Here's hoping he keeps on keepin' on & gives us another round of awesome material.

Let It Rain,
Jeffrey

[Beagle]

And VH3 really was horrid. WHy does everyone hate this album? I thought it was very creative, very different. They were trying to do something a bit new, expanding their horizons, doing something non-childish, non-silly and a bit more mature. It was so refreshing not to hear the DLR silly childish macho bulllshit and stupid lyrics which ruined their early albums.

[Dave]

Mr. Beagle and friends,

Say what you want about the "early macho bs." but all I can say is look at the popularity/sales records of VH.

Those "EMBS" recordings sold over 2 million units per album and sold out more arenas, 1984 and pre, than just about any other band of their time.

Did that happen with VH3? NOT!!!:rolleyes:

But yet with Sammy they were still selling out shows even up to the Balance album.

With VH3 they couldn't even sell out my former high school.

Say what you like but the facts is the facts!;)