Steve, a question...Studio Chatter outtakes. Good or bad?

[Todd Fredericks]

Steve,

Last night I had dinner with my father and we were chatting about music and he brought up a topic about reissues (which he's been really getting into) that I've tried to explain to him several times in the past but I was wondering how you would explain it. He doesn't fully understand why sometimes take slating/studio conversation/false-starts are included in reissues of "standard" studio albums. It's just an innocent curiousity about this current trend. He said he could sort of understand why on collections but why established albums. He doesn't mind this but sometimes he's surprised by the inclusions when he's expecting to hear the next song (as burned in his memory from his old records). He's just curious about this because in the "old" days they used to take so much time to remove this stuff. I've explained many reasons why but I thought you could chime in about this. How would you explain it?

Thanks,
Todd

[Sckott]

Archeology in history? Two schools of thought;

One is, we should release the songs as heard on the LP.

Second is, if we left in the chatter, it makes listening more enjoyable. Point in mind: Moby Grape's "Anthology" with the producer yelling at 'em before takes. It's just HILLARIOUS.

Like this moment (from memory) where the producer tells the Grape to use the intro with a driving beat, and not with a sucessive backbeat, as I think he's talking to Skip:


P: Play that intro, just like you did before....(click) Boom boo- Tak Boo Boo Tak - (click).... Just play it like that and it drives like a mother ***ucker" (click)

S: (barely audiable) "It's 4 bar introduction...."

P: (booming) "INTRODUCTION-*****!" (click)

See, it's like finally owning the DVD and hearing the directors comments. It's usually VERY relealing. Shows here just how directly involved a producer was in the immediate sound, and he wasn't having it any other way! It's sometimes that way, and sometimes not. It's great to hear alternates, scraps and studio chatter. More revealing than interviews with the musicians themselves!

Here's my quick answer - Creativity, when it's going along, goes BEYOND what they cut into the record. Sometimes the leftovers are just as good as the record!


Steve's welcome to comment. ;) Hope I didn't steal anything from ya. I just emailed Steve to tell him the way he left in the "brick wall" fadeouts on the Everly Bros DCC CD (at -20db) were neat. He told me:

"You noticed that the fade stopped at a certain
point and then cut out, eh? That is the real deal, my friend. A true old fashioned console fade, but just to -20db. Then it holds there and dies when the engineer snips it to be leadered. I love that stuff. Anything smoother is a tape copy or a mastering engineer impatiently wanting to get it over with."

And that alone, is archeology, which is VERY cool ! :cool:

[Steve Hoffman]

Sckott, thanks for chiming in. You are ALWAYS welcome!

Todd,

Well, GUILTY! I was one of the first to do this I'm afraid. It started when I found some "interesting" chatter at the beginning of some Johnny Burnette trio things I was working on way back when. They ended up on a reissue on the "Solid Smoke" label. I left a bit on to give the lovers of the songs a little "you are there" thrill. Well, the response was so great, I started doing it more and more. I don't think I ever did it when I was doing an entire reissued album though. But others picked it up, mainly Ron F. at Capitol. After that it started to drive me crazy, because of course, once you've heard the chatter, you really don't want to hear it EVERY time. So, I started ONLY adding some if it was REALLY neat. And only on its own "track number" on a CD, so you could program it out or just skip the number with the chatter.

Now, I feel that chatter detracts from the over all music in a big way. If it's a classic album reissued intact, I won't add any at all, unless it's at the very end, or the very beginning of the disc.

On the Judy Garland Two-fer that I am working on for S&P, I left all chatter off, except for the last song on "Judy In Love". She mocks the producer in the booth and babbles off nonsense numbers as he is trying to "slate" a take. So they are both yakking at the same time. Then she gives a little laugh and the song starts. Takes about 8 seconds, but it is important to me to put it on there. It shows that Judy Garland was happy, and excited to be making a record, and seemed to be enjoying herself. These are things that people possibly don't realise. It is common knowledge that Judy always needed money, and only made LP's because she had to. But with the little bit of chatter, we can hear for ourselves that she is right there, dead on pitch, and totally jazzed, like any good singer making a record should be. So in this case, I thought it should be included.

Now, to be honest, if I ever found any Creedence studio chatter, I would probably have included it, either at the end of side one or the end of side two. But, there ain't no such animal I'm afraid. It would have been neat to hear how the band acted in the studio. Were they happy, angry, bored, silly, etc.? A little glimpse into the history of our favorite recordings is neat, but it should never break the mood, so to speak.

Sorry for the length...

[Sckott]

It would be nice to hear Creedence chatter. John said they only did 1-3 takes on something, or they droppped the song because of boredom. John drove everyone a little batty because he wanted takes quick, perfect and DONE. You'd know more than I would though, Steve. Did ya ever get to fondle the multis if they exist? :)

[Todd Fredericks]

Thanks Sckott and Steve,

Your insights, explanations and history about this is very helpful. I'm going to forward this to him...

Thanks again,
Todd

[hoboken lad]

I have no problem with studio chatter on a CD reissue of an existing album IF the chatter is given its own access (PQ?) code. That way, when you tire of the chatter, you can program your CD player to eliminate it when you listen to the album.

I think Steve did this to perfection on the Beach Boys "Lost & Found" in 1991, even it wasn't a recreation of an official album.

The first Moby Grape LP is, to me, the finest debut album of all time, and it was almost ruined on CD by Sony leaving in the occassional studio chatter without giving it is own code. It spoils the flow.

In general I would urge all people who remaster albums for CD's to give seperate codes to studio chatter. GIVEN THE LISTERNER A CHOICE!!

[czeskleba]

My two cents: I love added studio chatter and I don't think it ruins a classic album at all. My all-time favorite bit is the stuff at the beginning of Elvis' "Such a Night" where Elvis aborts a take, gives Buddy Harmon some instructions on how he wants the drums played, and starts over. That false start somehow adds to the drama of the song for me, and now I feel like something's missing when I hear just the "regular" version of the song. It first appeared on one of the Legendary Performer LPs, and I was really happy that Steve decided to include it on the DCC version of Elvis is Back.

Oh, I'm enough of a nitpick to point out that although Skippy Spence was the drummer in the Jefferson Airplane, when he joined Moby Grape it was as rhythm guitar. Don Stevenson (the "finger" guy on the album cover) was drummer, so he's the one the producer is talking to before "Fall on Me" on the Vintage cd.

[Grant]

I like studio chatter as long as it is before the index so it can be bypassed when wanted.

[Sckott]

.....I was too lazy to look, so thanks for the corrections ;)

[jligon]

I remember loving the first studio chatter I heard on a CD and, at one point, felt that all CDs should provide bonus tracks.

I now feel the exact opposite. I sold the Little Richard Specialty box just because it was such a difficult listen compared to something like Georgia Peach.

When sitting down, uninterupted, to listen to a disc and read the liner notes, etc...it may be interesting to hear the studio chatter. But when I want to listen and bring back those memories of hearing the album in a certain place and time, the chatter can be distracting. Bonus tracks, epecially poorly chosen ones, can also be distracting.

Sckott mentioned DVDs earlier. It has been my wish that CDs could be set up like DVDs where you could access different parts of the disc: A. Listen to the original album only, B. Access bonus tracks, C. Listen the the album with studio chatter etc. D. Artists/Director's comments etc...(George Martin!). Does DVD-A have this potential?

[Kayaker]

Best studio chatter - Notorious Byrd Brothers CD- Wow what wonderful anger!
2nd Best - Lady Sings the Blues CD/God Bless the Child - Billie Holiday. Captures her later years perfectly.

[Joel Cairo]

Well, I love chatter as well (and thanks to Steve 'fessing up, now I know why I loved that "Solid Smoke" re-issue of the RnR Trio stuff, too... "Butterfingers, Butterfingers..."), but too much of it in the wrong places certainly **can** be a distraction. This is why a lot of bootlegs don't pass the "repeated listening" test-- more "Get Back" sessions, anyone??

But Steve, isn't doing this sort of thing on reisssues the type of thing that gets label honchos sore at you? I'm thinking that while it certainly doesn't explain everything, it could be part of the reason that BMG pulled the plug on any further Elvis material. From what you said earlier, sneaking stuff in on the Steve Miller hits disc didn't endear you to a few of the folks at Capitol, either (who, let's face it, should've reviewed the masters before they signed off on them)...

Having said that, however, let me also say that I was delighted that you added the "Such a Night" stuff, too!

Just a few thoughts to make up $0.02 worth.

-Kevin

PS - I just landed a copy of your MCA Mamas & Papas CD... and all I can say is "Wow!-- talk about a silk purse from a sow's ear...!!"

[Steve Hoffman]

Originally posted by Joel Cairo


But Steve, isn't doing this sort of thing on reisssues the type of thing that gets label honchos sore at you?

Having said that, however, let me also say that I was delighted that you added the "Such a Night" studio chatter stuff, too!



Kevin,

No, the companies are cool with us adding studio chatter. Even BMG with the Elvis. After all, they had to approve sending it to us in the first place. Chatter is a part of reissue life now....

Some of the execs at BMG just didn't like the DCC Elvis getting such good reviews over their own efforts.

[mcow1]

As long as it is indexed it fine, how many times can you listen to the same chatter before it drives you nuts if you can't program it out.

[Andy]

The chatter on Relaxin’ didn’t bother me, but I never did figure out what they were saying.:D