Classical and Opera

[Andy]

I’ve been thinking of expanding my horizons lately, unfortunately all of my knowledge of Classical and Opera I learned from Bugs Bunny cartoons. Anybody have any suggestions for a place to start?

[Sckott]

Mozart. Don Giovanni.

[Steve Hoffman]

I know it sounds silly, but pick up "The Three Tenors" and whatever moves you the most on there, well, start with that opera.

In general, I suggest Puccini as a place to start. Tragic Italians. "Madame Butterfly" or maybe "La Boheme"?

Be sure to check out any old London Blueback Opera boxes with my favorite female, Renata Tebaldi. She RULES! Great 1950's-early 60's British Decca sound. Like you are standing in the room with her. You can find mint LP sets for pretty cheap. Not many Clapton fans collect opera recordings as well. ;)

[Andy]

Thanks people.:D

[Matt]

The three biggest figures in classical music are Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven, so I would start there first.

Bach's most enduring work is Mass in B Minor, and the best version is John Eliot Gardiner's recording. The Goldberg Variations is another great one. My favorite is the famous recording done by Glenn Gould in the 50's, but there are also detractors of Gould who detest his interpretations, so you may want to look elsewhere (suggestions anyone?).

Beethoven: I like George Szell's recordings of Beethoven's piano concertos (1-5) on Sony.

Beethoven's symphonies are legendary. If you want to get a complete set, I suggest the older Solt/CSO recording, or the one done by Walter Weller (usually pretty cheap), but you're probably better off picking your favorites and moving from there. For "Eroica" (no. 3), Klemperer's the best; Bruno Walter's sixth is great as well. I like Solti and the CSO's ninth the best. Kleiber's recording of the 5th is also great. Von Karajan is famous for his recordings, too, but some people really hate him (I'm not a huge fan).

Mozart: Symphonies 35-41 are his most well known. I have Karl Bohm's recordings, which are really good. Marriage Of Figaro is absolutely essential.

Want any American composers? Appalachian Springs/Rodeo/Billy the Kid by Aaron Copland can be found on a great single disc by Sony with Leonard Bernstein conducting the New York Philharmonic. Copland is regarded as the greatest composer of the last century, with the possible exception of Duke Ellington.

Adagio for Strings by Barber is a famous work that was featured in Platoon. Get Charles Munch's recording.

Stravinsky conducted "Rite of Spring" on a great Sony disc; an old recording, but a great disc nonetheless.

Puccini's operas are my favorite. "Tosca" on EMI with Maria Callas is a legendary performance. "La Boheme" with Beecham on EMI is also great.

Wagner's epics are astounding. Tristan & Isolde is probably the best start (I like Wilhelm Furtwangler's recording on EMI). Then you can move on to Der Ring des Nibelungen, which is a massive piece of work; you may want to start with a "Highlights" disc on that one.

Vivaldi's Four Seasons is another good introduction to classical music...

Leonard Bernstein did a great PBS series on classical music a long time ago (something like "Classical Music for Young Listeners"...I'm probably really off with that name). If you can find it on video, it would be a great way to learn about the music as well as listen to it.

[Ronald]

Here goes two examples, but they are controversial.

If you want recent opera please look for a video copy of "Nixon in China" by John Adams. I saw it on Public Television in 1988. I have not heard any kind remarks about the audio only. I usually sleep through opera, but I really enjoyed this one.

You just gots to try one of the saddest stories ever written "Les Miserables". The translation to opera was excellent. Go with the video first. If you like, then go with an audio copy.

The Barber of Seville is a good place to start, too. There are familiar hooks to keep you interested. I don't know if the ballet Nutcracker Suite counts as opera.

My opinion about opera is one should start with the video or live performance first. I myself find it hard to listen to opera without having the visual to follow the story. Also with opera, you can rent the video and not feel you have spent your hard earned cash on something you didn't like.

[Paul L.]

You have to keep in mind that when you have these broad categories, classical and opera, you're asking for something at least as tough as saying, recommend to me some rock record.

Plus, everybody's got different opinions. I find Bach boring, and don't care for much of Mozart, and detest Wagner. But up above you'll see these heartily recommended.

I'd suggest you start with Chopin, Tchaikovsky, Stravinsky, Mahler, Brahms, and Beethoven.

For opera, I'd suggest you skip it completely : )

[Mal]

I'm not a big fan of opera, but here are a few of my favourite classical pieces:

Schubert

Symphony No. 8 in B minor (aka the "The Unfinished Symphony").

If you get the Bruno Walter SACD version you also get Beethoven's 5th Symphony thrown in! For me, this is the best version out there. Recorded in 1959.....

Schumann

Piano Quintet, Op. 44
Piano Quartet, Op. 47

Both of these appeared on CD on the CBS Masterworks series with pianists Leonard Bernstein and Glenn Gould respectively, but it may be hard to find that disc now....

Carnaval op. 9

If you like solo piano recordings they don't get much better than this in my opinion. There's a pretty good Deutche Gramophone CD with Daniel Barenboim on piano that also includes two other piano works by Schumann.....

Tchaikovsky

Symphony No. 6 in B minor, op. 74 "Pathetique"

Romeo & Juliet

These two appear together on a Deutche Gramophone CD and are both conducted by Claudio Abbado. Do melodies come any finer than "Romeo & Juliet"? I've not heard any better!

[The CDs I'm recommending are all European releases that may well be hard to find now - sorry. The SACD is easy to get though and is a GREAT place to start!]

[Andy]

I must say I was a little less than truthful. I will be staying in Japan for a few months and my sponsor is I a big fan of Classical music, and Opera. The only thing I have successfully broadened in the last ten years is my waistline. My goal is to be able to be part of a conversation without sounding like a complete idiot (If I sound like a partial idiot that’s ok). If I find something I like so much the better. The only formal music I’ve liked was something by Yo-Yo Ma, I don't know what it was, it was playing at my in-laws anniversary party. Thanks for the suggestions.

[Andrew]

See if your town has a classical radio station, or failing that maybe a college FM station that runs NPR, or Minnesota Public Radio's "Music Through The Night" or some other type of classical program. Lotsa classical stations on the web, too.

[Matt]

Well, if you want to start a discussion, ask him what he thinks of Maria Callas or Herbert von Karajan. I was talking with a friend the other day about those two. Callas is a legendary figure in classical music, but a number of people think she's severely overrated. Granted, her performance of "Tosca" is amazing, but it was a long, deep descent after that. And von Karajan? His interpretations strike me as a bit cold and sometimes lacking in subtlety or finesse (his recording of Beethoven's 6th is notoriously rushed).

Better yet, talk about Andrea Bocelli, the blind tenor. He's a media darling, just as David Helfgott was after "Shine," but the fact is, neither is deserving of the attention. It's an unfortunate aspect of classical music that some of today's stars are big because of non-musical reasons. It's wonderful a blind man can become a success in the music industry, but I just don't think he cuts it. Some of his rabid fans can become quite hostile when you criticize his work, but if you want to start up a good conversation, that may be a good topic.

[mcow1]

Bizet - Carmen and see if it makes you think of Harpo Marx.
Personally I love almost anything von Karajan conducted.

[Paul Chang]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Not many Clapton fans collect opera recordings as well. ;) This Clapton fan do. ;) I think the ABC of operas are good starters: Verdi's Aida, Puccini's La Boheme and Bizet's Carmen, all tragic tales of the leading ladies. (:sad: Wipe off tears in my eyes.)

Violin concertos by Beethoven, Brahm, Mendelssohn and Tchaikovsky with Jascha Heifetz on RCA Living Stereo are my sentimental favroties, which were passed down to me from my late father. But my favorite violinist is David Oistrakh.

Another favorite piece is Mendelssohn's A Midsummer Night's Dream. Everytime I played it for people not familiar with this work or classical music in general, they all loved it. I introduced it to a college classmate, who in turn played it to his roommates - same reaction! They were amazed how beautiful this music is. Try to get the EMI version with Andre Previn conducting London Symphony Orchestra, which has the most beautiful classical music album cover IMO.
http://gs.cdnow.com/graphics/COVERART/AMG/L/46/06/00254606.jpg

[lennonfan]

.

Better yet, talk about Andrea Bocelli, the blind tenor. He's a media darling, just as David Helfgott was after "Shine," but the fact is, neither is deserving of the attention. It's an unfortunate aspect of classical music that some of today's stars are big because of non-musical reasons. It's wonderful a blind man can become a success in the music industry, but I just don't think he cuts it. Some of his rabid fans can become quite hostile when you criticize his work, but if you want to start up a good conversation, that may be a good topic. [/B][/QUOTE]

I'm a very big fan of Bocelli but I would hardly consider myself 'rabid'. I don't mind honest critical insight into his work at all, but I find the Helfgott analogy distasteful at best. There is no comparison there, other than the fact both have 'disabilities'.
Bocelli is extremely talented, has sold around 40 million discs worldwide, plays many instruments (flute, guitar, horn, piano/keyboards) extremely well, and is not what I would consider a 'media darling' at all, as many reviews of his work are scathing. The thing is, he's been an international superstar for about 5 years now...if the emperor had no clothes, people would have noticed by now...fact is, he commands more than virtually any artist on the planet for in concert appearances (top ticket prices are often $500 at the box office) and the reason he has so many fans is because they -enjoy his music-.
He has an outstanding voice that is well controlled, he was the first artist in the modern era to bring Italian popular music into the mainstream (a substancial feat in itself) and his style is very warm, not prima-donnaish at all. He also has the Guiness record for holding the top 3 Classical chart positions for what seemed like forever;)
He works with many of the top Classical artists (singers and conductors) who have a reputation to protect, and if they didn't feel he had 'the right stuff', they wouldn't bother perpetuating such a fraud on the public. The fact is, Bocelli has a scholarly knowledge of Opera and Classical and is a brilliant intellectual who keeps the scores in his head and can discuss the finer details of the art (and has done so) with the best minds in the business.
There is a reason one of his titles is the best selling Operatic aria disc of all time.

[mazort]

I would suggest (but of course) Mozart!

Don Giovanni
Le Nozze Di Figaro
Cosi Fan Tutti
The Magic Flute

Opera is like wine - drink!

Let me know how you like them!

[NoTinEar]

The wide wide wideee world of classical. Let me waste some cyberspace and give some recommendations. I think the most important thing to remember is like any other genre of music, just listen to different things and then decide what moves you on some level. Those could be emotionally, intellectually, physically, etc. You don't have to listen for perfect phrasing, period instruments, or all that other stuff. It's about what makes you feel something in you, just like any other good music. That's why I am not going to make specific performance recommendations as far as the performances are concerned. The recommendations I am making have a nod towards the sound quality. That's up to you to start with. With that said, here are some classical recommendations that move me in some way.

Tchaikosvsky- Concerto in D for Violin and Orchestra, Op. 35-
This exact recording I recommend is 1967 recording of Itzhak Perlman on the Chesky label that has a stunning performance and really nice sound.


Tchaikosvky- 1812 Overture
If your not saying …YEAAAAA by the end of this piece you better check your heartbeat. It's totally rousing, exciting, uplifting and one of the pieces of music that has constantly stayed in rotation after Sept. 11. There is no way this piece of music cant lift your sprits.
I like the original Telarc version on CD.

Modest Mussurgksy-Pictures At An Exhibition
Fritz Reiner on CD. XRCD 0016

Richard Strauss-Also Sprach Zarathustra
Yes you heard the introduction in 2001, the movie that is; that fact doesn't diminish how good a piece of music it is. It doesn't diminish the fact the rest of the work is so moving, so loud, and so cinematic.
Fritz Reiner on CD. XRCD 0011

Hector Berlioz-Symphonie Fantastique, Op. 14
Yes one of the movements is used in many a movie, again it doesn't diminish how well the piece of music is written. The rest of the work is a great ride also, with a devilish nod and fanatic pacing.
Charles Munch on CD. XRCD 0001

Ottorino Respighi-Pines of Rome
What a beautifully written piece of music. You cant close your eyes and not see, bold colors and shades of colors. It's very intense experience and emotionally very moving.
Fritz Reiner on CD. XRCD 0008


Gustav Host-The Planets
Buckle up because its going to be a musical ride that it bumpy and all over the map.


As far a Beethoven is concerned, and excellent starting point to get an idea of a broad range of his work would be the Immortal Beloved soundtrack. They are decent performances with excellent sound quality. It presents an excellent cross section of many kinds of his classical works.
Zubin Mehta on CD. Classic Records cscd6734


Another great collection, if you want to see the fingerprint of how a conductor shapes what you hear from classical music, is the Bernstein LIVE! 10 cd set from the NY Philharmonic web site only. There are literally 30 plus composers work in the set. The unifying thread of course being that the same person is conducting all the pieces. Some marvelous stuff in this set and you get a great cross selection of music.

At any rate if you want to talk shop about classical with someone you really need to listen to the work/s your talking about. A majority of what you discuss is going to be how the work moved you in some way. So, if you haven't listened you're going to come up short in that conversation. At least that's my opinion.

And finally there is nothing wrong with classical music in Looney Tunes. With the recent passing of Chuck Jones, I dug out my copy of "What's Opera Doc" and was immediately reconnected with my younger days, showed me why I may have started to have an interest in classical music, great animation, and true comedy.

[Andrew]

What notinear said.:)

[Gary]

For some reason I like the "H"'s - Handel and Hayden. I just love Szell's version of the Royal Fireworks.

Don't have much on CD though. I hope to correct this when I get a SACD player. :)

I can't seem to bring myself to dip into the Opera pool, though. Gulp!

I believe that Offenbach was the composer used for a lot of the Looney Tunes cartoons. A friend has the vinyl... it's amazing.

The big problem (IMO) with classical is that, for example, Beethoven's 5th has 14 selections in the CD racks which means that 14 conductors and orchestra's did 14 CDs. Luckily the people who work in the classical sections are well versed in their art. Ask!

And enjoy! Classical is a true test of your stereo system! :D

[Matt]

Originally posted by lennonfan
I'm a very big fan of Bocelli but I would hardly consider myself 'rabid'.

Maybe I should've phrased my words a bit more carefully, but I didn't mean that all his fans are rabid (and I obviously wasn't pointing a finger at you), but I've talked to some fans who have thrown a fit over the slightest criticism; every popular musician has them, I suppose.

I don't mind honest critical insight into his work at all, but I find the Helfgott analogy distasteful at best.

Ah, I get what you mean now. Let me clarify: when I was in high school, I remember a number of people fawning over Helfgott's big tour at the time. I sat through his concert and just couldn't get over the technical fumbles, but there were people with me who just thought the whole thing was wonderful. When I explained my point of view, they countered that this was a man who got his life back together and therefore should be praised. Yes, I'm glad he got his life back together, but again, it was criticism that wasn't based on the music. The reason I made the analogy between Bocelli and Helfgott is because I feel like I've gotten the same experience at different performances by both. It has nothing to do with the fact that they have their "disabilities" so much as both seemed to be appreciated for something besides their musical talents (I'm sure you've seen a trend to sell female classical musicians as sex symbols, now). It wasn't a dig at disabled musicians, and to be honest, I'm a little offended that I could be accused of that (awhile back, a local violinist here had her leg severed in a tragic train accident; my parents knew people who were there and it was quite horrific).

Bocelli is extremely talented, has sold around 40 million discs worldwide, plays many instruments (flute, guitar, horn, piano/keyboards) extremely well, and is not what I would consider a 'media darling' at all, as many reviews of his work are scathing.

The critics may not like him, but he seems to get plenty of media exposure. Perhaps "media darling" was the wrong phrase to use, but I see him everywhere in the media. As for his talents, well, this is where we disagree and that's that. We both obviously are affected by his talents differently, but let me say that I wouldn't use popularity to prove his talents. Yes, he is enormously popular, but so is Kenny G. Kenny G is the most popular "jazz" recording artist in history, and in fact holds the Guinness world record for longest sustained playing. But, I can't stand listening to him. (I'm certain you think to yourself, "Why do so many people like U2?") I'm certain Bocelli is also very well-learned in classical music, as well, but knowledge doesn't always mean good art. Some of the best students in the world never make it as artists or good musicians. In the end, you can only go by what you hear, and like I said, that's something we both disagree on, and that's that.

[Andrew]

Originally posted by Gary
The big problem (IMO) with classical is that, for example, Beethoven's 5th has 14 selections in the CD racks which means that 14 conductors and orchestra's did 14 CDs.

A good source for reviews is Gramophone Magazine (http://www.gramofile.co.uk). Hope that helps!:)

[BradOlson]

For 78rpm transfers to CD of classical music, you can count on UK labels such as Pearl and ASV.

Although I am not a classical music buff, I do have on cassette Great Sousa Marches by Morton Gould which is a reissue of his Sousa Forever album on RCA Victor with great RCA Living Stereo production of 14 of Sousa's best known marches, Ormandy's Columbia performance with the Philadelphia Orchestra of excerpts from the Nutcracker on vinyl and cassette, and although this is more jazz than classical, Scott Joplin's "Gold Collection" on single CD which has 14 great piano rags, all original arrangements so if budget is an issue and you still want the original arrangements you get with the Biograph CD's that are full priced, Gold Collection (either a 2 CD import or a single CD issue on the budget Fine Tune label) is essential, but for modern arrangements of some of Joplin's work, The Sting movie soundtrack is a classic.

[Gary]

Wow, that's a great resource, Andrew! Thanks! :D

[lennonfan]

Originally posted by Matt


The critics may not like him, but he seems to get plenty of media exposure. Perhaps "media darling" was the wrong phrase to use, but I see him everywhere in the media. As for his talents, well, this is where we disagree and that's that. We both obviously are affected by his talents differently, but let me say that I wouldn't use popularity to prove his talents. Yes, he is enormously popular, but so is Kenny G. Kenny G is the most popular "jazz" recording artist in history, and in fact holds the Guinness world record for longest sustained playing. But, I can't stand listening to him. (I'm certain you think to yourself, "Why do so many people like U2?") I'm certain Bocelli is also very well-learned in classical music, as well, but knowledge doesn't always mean good art. Some of the best students in the world never make it as artists or good musicians. In the end, you can only go by what you hear, and like I said, that's something we both disagree on, and that's that.

I have no problem with people who don't like Bocelli....I don't like Domingo. Never have. Everyone has a different set of ears and what appeals to one may not appeal to another and so on.
My main criticism of Bocelli at this point has nothing to do with his Opera and everything to do with his popular music. I think he has the ability to transform the art and bring Operatic glory to popular music in a more profound way, much like Freddie Mercury did with Queen. My main complaint at this point was that he's becomming a romantic balladeer, and while a bit of that is nice, to make a career of it will make him nothing more than an Italian Englebert. I talked with Bocelli at length in Detroit, and I gave him several albums: Beatles White Album, Nico-The Classic Years and Billie Holiday-Lady In Satin. The point of that was to show that the sky was the limit, in popular music he could do whatever he wanted and that he should take the whole art in a new direction (something I feel he is very capable of)....he's excited by new media such as DVD and his works are starting to show expanded interest in new formats...but the music isn't growing with it, IMO. I think he should do an English album, a Christmas album, an album that showcases his playing abilities along jazz lines and a pop album with some rough edge to it. Sadly, I think he's surrounded by 'handlers' who don't want to mess with the formula. Formula to me equals death. I managed to make that clear to him...only time will tell if I had an impact.

[tomcat]

Matt,
Speaking of the "Gouldberg" Variations", I like his 1981 version even better, not that he played them much slower (more than 12 minutes!!!), but it's Gould's breathing, singing and moaning that is very impressive to me.

Mazort,
When it comes to Mozart's "Zauberflöte" (The Magic Flute"), there is a version from - I guess - the seventies with Georg Solti. The singing is outstanding: the voices are not beautiful, but very expressive. Do not follow the masses: this is the one to go!

[Paul Chang]

Originally posted by tomcat
Matt,
Speaking of the "Gouldberg" Variations", I like his 1981 version even better, not that he played them much slower (more than 12 minutes!!!), but it's Gould's breathing, singing and moaning that is very impressive to me.
Glenn Gould himself was actually much annoyed by it and seeked the help of a therapist to correct it. A man's trash is another man's treasure? :)