Turntable questions

[poweragemk]

All,
As a child of the digital generation, I've only recently acquired a record player and started building a vinyl collection; until recently my experience with records was only as a teenager with my mother's LPs. So maybe this will sound like a dumb question, please forgive me. I have a Pioneer PL-4 direct drive record player. Unfortunately the player seems to have a little speed problem - the dial on the front is pretty useless to get it to its correct speed, and it occasionally dips in speed. I have pretty good pitch anyway, so playing records at the right speed is both important from a purity standpoint and so that it doesn't grate on me mercilessly. A few questions:
First, is this a typical problem with record players? Ideally, I guess, I'd rather not have to deal with the speed problem at all and just have my player play exactly 33 1/3 or 45.
Second, is my current player worth repairing or modifying or doing anything to to save it? I didn't pay anything for it, mind you, so I'm not that attached to it - but I don't have a lot of money at this point in my life to buy something fancy.
Third, is there a decent but inexpensive turntable I should be on the lookout for on the used or new market? Is the one they sell at Best Buy decent?


Thanks a lot!

--MK

[Joe Koz]

Personally, I'd pitch it (no pun intended). You can get a new MMF-2.1 ready to go, out of the box. I think it runs a little over $200.00, not a fortune, and it will get you going. JMHO!

[poweragemk]

oops, just realized this should be in the hardware and not the music forum...my (half-asleep) apologies...feel free to move the post if necessary, gorts.

--MK

[Sckott]

No prob.

MK, anyone can do better than this for under $200. I agree - dump.

Bad turntables are for bad people.

[Gary]

This is not typical for a TT. It's broken. I'll bet it would be cheaper to buy another table than to have it fixed.

The Best Buy table looks a bit on the cheap side to me. Hopefully you have enough for the MMF. If not, think used. With a guarantee, of course.

[Graham Start]

Originally posted by poweragemk
Is the one they sell at Best Buy decent?


In a word, NO.

As others have said... get something like an MMF 2 (and perhaps a better cartridge, the included one leaves something to be desired), or a used Rega P2.

The Best Buy table isn't so cheap when you factor in that it's worth nothing. Avoid anything made mostly out of plastic or that uses P-mount cartridges.

[Mike V]

MK - have you tried contact cleaner on the pitch adjustment? That might just be your whole problem. Hell, I'd tear the table apart just to see what makes it tick - why not try to salvage it/fix it yourself? You might learn something fun. It might also save you buying a TT until you can save for a decent one.

[poweragemk]

Originally posted by Mike V
MK - have you tried contact cleaner on the pitch adjustment? That might just be your whole problem. Hell, I'd tear the table apart just to see what makes it tick - why not try to salvage it/fix it yourself? You might learn something fun. It might also save you buying a TT until you can save for a decent one.

No, I haven't. Where do I get this kind of stuff? (I'm already a tinkerer, so this is right up my alley.)

[Sckott]

An inexpensive MMF or a used Rega 2 with the RB250 arm is best to start with.

For the most part, undercutting that, you're not even at a very solid starting point. Sure you may get something that works, but it's much better to get something that SOUNDS GOOD. :)

[poweragemk]

Originally posted by Sckott
An inexpensive MMF or a used Rega 2 with the RB250 arm is best to start with.

For the most part, undercutting that, you're not even at a very solid starting point. Sure you may get something that works, but it's much better to get something that SOUNDS GOOD. :)

Oh, believe me, I agree, but I'm a just graduated student looking for work, so I've had to 86 the non-essential purchases so I don't starve ;) . Believe me, a good turntable is high on my list once I am gainfully employed!

--MK

[quadjoe]

Originally posted by poweragemk


No, I haven't. Where do I get this kind of stuff? (I'm already a tinkerer, so this is right up my alley.)

Try Radio Shack for contact cleaner, you just spray it on the contacts and work the switch a few times. I hope that it works. If it doesn't, chuck it out. Back in 1982, I purchased a Pioneer PL-4 as I wanted to upgrade from my old PL-10. New out of the box it was a piece of junk, I'm sorry to say. The microprocessor that controlled the speed went bad (this may be the problem you have) twice under the warranty (and it took Pioneer 3 months to send the part the second time) and once the week after the warranty expired: I threw it in the Dumpster the same day. Another option is to get a used Pioneer PL-10 or PL-12 belt drive TT. They are readily available off eBay for less than $100.00 and usually they'll just need a belt and a new cart. I also agree with the others that the Music Hall MMF 2.1 is an excellent entry level TT and you'll have the advantage of having something that's new and under warranty (turntables are a very mature technology, so there really is little to go wrong, and the motors last for years.)

[Mike V]

Yes, Radio Shack has it, though Home Depot has it cheaper. The PL-10/PL-12 suggestion is a good one, IMO. Keep your eyes open at the thrift shops. For $20 and maybe a belt you could take home a decent enough TT to keep you busy. That's how I got started, and still have a number of thrift shop finds getting use around the house. Spend your money on the cart - IMO that's what's in contact with your LPs, so make sure it's quality (not necessarily audiophile, but a good reliable cart with a brand new stylus).

Like I say, when you have the money and decide you really like vinyl (and you will), then make the plunge on a better TT/cart. By then you'll have a better idea what kind of table you want :)

[Damián]

Originally posted by Sckott
Bad turntables are for bad people.
Please don't say that. I'm only short on money, that's all. :sigh:

Originally posted by Mike V
have you tried contact cleaner on the pitch adjustment?
Mike V beat me to it. I had a direct-drive TT with the same problem you mention (pitch would drop at random) and a shot of contact cleaner did the trick.

[Sckott]

Originally posted by Damián

Please don't say that. I'm only short on money, that's all.

Damian, good luck no matter what you get into. What I'm basically saying is, the investment into a new turntable, when done cheaply (unless you stumble on something really nice) you MAY find vinyl isn't going to sound that hot at all, and the investment will be wasted.

I'm not Mr. Moneybags either. How I got a Rega P3 on a Radio Announcer's budget (@ the time) is BEYOND me.

Reason I went that direction was I had spent money on low-ball analog front end, and got LESS than what I paid for. Someone who was very honest told me to "stop playing around in the sandboxes and BE A REAL MAN" or something to that effect.

Results not only made me a better vinyl listener, it made mediocre vinyl many times better than before. The investment is worth every penny, and you don't need to soak lots of money into a turntable.

But some cheapity-cheap ones can be dreadful to your ears and your vinyl. That's the pinch. :( Sorry, man.

[Damián]

Originally posted by Sckott


..

But some cheapity-cheap ones can be dreadful to your ears and your vinyl. That's the pinch. :( Sorry, man.
That's OK, I was kidding for the most part, I didn't even think you'd reply.

I understand and agree with what you say, of course.. it's been some time since I last had a job now (I might start looking for one soon since studying hasn't worked for me) but if I did have an 'expendable margin' a turntable would be high on my list.

[Mike V]

I've never had a TT that has actually caused damage to my vinyl. It's mostly in how you set up the cart that will make or break you. Careful, thorough cleaning is also much more important than having a good table if you want to protect your collection. It is true that you won't get audiophile nirvana out of a cheap set up, though you can get a decent taste of the goodness vinyl can offer.

My $20 table/cart (a real P.O.S.) circa '90 sounded GREAT. It had some huge, gaping flaws, but you could still hear the potential. The point is not to break the bank over a TT, but spend wisely (cartridge being #1) and upgrade as funds allow.

[Damián]

Originally posted by Mike V
I've never had a TT that has actually caused damage to my vinyl. It's mostly in how you set up the cart that will make or break you. Careful, thorough cleaning is also much more important than having a good table if you want to protect your collection. It is true that you won't get audiophile nirvana out of a cheap set up, though you can get a decent taste of the goodness vinyl can offer.
I agree. I've been into vinyl for the last year or so and what got me going was a $13 Sansui turntable I picked up at a flea market. It's begun to fail now (my fault), but it did provide me with some great moments of musical enjoyment.

I asked around at the Vinyl Asylum for a cartridge recommendation, bought one, took the time to align it and I'm confident that turntable didn't do any damage to my LPs. Did I reach 'audiophile nirvana', as you call it? No, most certainly. But I did experience some sound the likes of which I'm not sure I'd heard from CDs. Just MHO.

[poweragemk]

Thanks all, I guess I'll see if I can pick up some contact cleaner! :)

[sgraham]

If cleaning the speed control doesn't take care of it, look for an internal trim pot. That's probably either broken or dirty. It's probably a very cheap part, easily replaced.

Also do make sure your stylus is in good shape. A worn or damaged stylus *will* damage records very quickly. Better a cheap cartridge with a good stylus than a delux model with a stylus that's shot. (Note that while a cartridge like the Shure V-15VMR, which has a "fine line" stylus, may last for years, a typical eliptical or spherical/conical stylus will not.)