Question - Vinyl Groove Damage

[StrawberryFields]

Back in the good old days, the old Stereo Review magazine published an issue which had photos that literally showed the damage done to the grooves of vinyl after being played. Wish I still had a copy of that issue, but it used to make me sweat, so it's probably just as well that I don't! Even though I've always used the trusty Shure V-15, I got so paranoid about ruining my favorite records that I used to buy two copies of each, and would only play one of them....I'll bet lots of baby boomers who treasured their collections were in the same boat. My question is, is there any kind of a real reference point for determining how many spins of a vinyl recording are too many....In other words, when does the damage become audible?

[Sckott]

Tricky-trick question.

In most cases, vinyl wear by playing it too much comes in the form of erratic hissing in the groove. Sometimes it's distortion, usually in the high end (>3K). There is such a thing as a well engineered record played with nicely calibrated equipment, played many times with no signs of audible wear.

Then there's such a thing as a poorly made record, poor playback ways and means, and everything in between.

So, there's no such thing as 40X worth of playback is all that's possible per side with no apparent wear. Circumstances are different all the time, and so are the possibilities.

[StrawberryFields]

True, Sckott
I realize that there is no set rule due to the differences in cartridges, stylus, calibration, etc. So let me reword this.... Assuming one has
all these things in order (good turntable, reliable tonearm, good cartridge, good stylus, no calibration problems....and good, solid vinyl), about how many trackings could one expect to get out of the grooves? Again, I wish I had the Stereo Review issue that went into detail regarding this, but since I don't, I am trying to find out again.

[Sckott]

I'm working with other people's opinions, but I tend to agree. Grooves are much like soft rubber. The groove wall has some very slight "snap-back" to it.

However, tracking angle, VTA (sometimes) and stylus contact, pressure, as well as compound of the vinyl has TONS to do with just where wear becomes a problem and how many plays does it take to start fatiguing the wall. There's no set answer. It has to be vague.

I try and not play the same side more than twice per day.

I may have some eye candy for ya in a min....

[Sckott]

Still interesting...

[Sckott]

.

[Sckott]

Another..

[Sckott]

Last one. This one's cool.

[Gary]

Groovy pictures, Sckott! :D Interesting stuff....

StrawberryFields, I used to pick up three. One to play, one to save and one for "good". ;)

Not trusting my abilities any more, I always have cartridges profesionally set up (installed). And hope they do a good job.

Can one get Gorted for a bad pun like "groovy pictures, Sckott? ;)

[StrawberryFields]

Thanks alot, Sckott,
The pictures add some visual detail to the issue, as does the accompanying commentary. At least these shots don't make me cringe, the way the old Stereo Review microscopic photos of the groove damage did! Still, I wish there was some more definitive way of evaluating the issue (it would just be nice if we could get some kind of reference point here regarding general amount of plays needed to create damage, using optimal playback equipment under optimal conditions. )
..... And Gary, I hear you....sometimes I would get three copies also....but boy did that get to be expensive!!!!

[Sckott]

I just got another copy of Kevin's cut DSOTM. I've stored it away sealed. Expensive insurance policy, true.

[StrawberryFields]

For Sure!

[sgraham]

There is no definitive way, but unless the records are pressed on really soft vinyl (as some were during the oil crisis) or are those polystyrene disks (generally only U.S. 45's) then as long as you can track the record cleanly, it should last a very long time, with good playback equipment. As long as your stylus is not worn out.

So here's the thing: If you take a record and play it hundreds of times then compare it with a brand new pressing you'll probably hear some difference. If you just play it hundreds of times during your life just to listen to it and enjoy it, chances are you won't notice any wear, subject to the caveats above.

So set up your gear carefully, then relax!

[rontokyo]

Originally posted by sgraham
So here's the thing: If you take a record and play it hundreds of times then compare it with a brand new pressing you'll probably hear some difference. If you just play it hundreds of times during your life just to listen to it and enjoy it, chances are you won't notice any wear, subject to the caveats above.


Very intelligent post, Steve. Many of us tend to get a little too anal about record wear, etc. Your point is well taken--relax and enjoy the music.