Stamper numbers...

[Holy Zoo]

Steve, Tom, anyone....

How to read stamper numbers?

I keep seeing Tom posting things like A5/B6. But some of the albums I have don't quite read out that way. Can someone enlighten?

Here's a few #s from albums I have:

Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
Charisma/Nippon
Side A: CGS 101A 121
Side B: CGS 101B 141
(all letters machine stamped, not hand inscribed)

---------------------------

The Pretenders - Self Titled
Sire
Side A: SRK . 1 . 6083 ww3
Side B: SRK . 2 . 6083 ww3
(all leters hand inscribed)

----------------------------

Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66 (Herb Alpert Presents)
A&M - Mono
Side A: CP-131 1D
Side B: CP-132 1D
(all letters hand inscribed)

Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66 (Herb Alpert Presents)
A&M - Stereo
Side A: CA-4 SP-4131-A (triangle symbol) 9450
Side B: CA-5 SP-4132-B (triangle symbol) 9450-X
(all letters hand inscribed)

Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66 (Herb Alpert Presents)
A&M - Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs - Stereo
MFSL-1-118-A1 H 1 1 1
MFSL-1-118-B1 H 1 1 1
(hand inscribed)

----------------------------

Fleetwood Mac - Rumours
Nautilus
Side A) KM+ NR8-F8 side 1 KM-4559 - A8
Side B) KM+ NR8-F8 side 1 KM-4559 - B8
(hand inscribed)

-----------------------------

Supertramp - Crime Of The Century
A&M Canada (but pressed in Japan)
Side A) 001A 141
Side B) 001B 141
(machine stamped, not hand inscribed)
------------------------------

Ok Tom & Steve, clue me in!

[Steve Hoffman]

Tom can fill us in, or any of the other rabid LP collectors who post here. I gave up worrying about it years ago myself. I just rely on Tom now. I have too many gray hairs as it is. :)

[Holy Zoo]

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

[Humorem]

Originally posted by Holy Zoo [/i]
Steve, Tom, anyone....

How to read stamper numbers?

I keep seeing Tom posting things like A5/B6. But some of the albums I have don't quite read out that way. Can someone enlighten?

Here's a few #s from albums I have:

Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
Charisma/Nippon
Side A: CGS 101A 121
Side B: CGS 101B 141
(all letters machine stamped, not hand inscribed)


This is standard Japanese numbering. 111 is the first stamper, 121 next, and so on. Means nothing to me. No practical value IMO.

---------------------------

The Pretenders - Self Titled
Sire
Side A: SRK . 1 . 6083 ww3
Side B: SRK . 2 . 6083 ww3
(all leters hand inscribed)


Super saver reissues and later copies have that WW. It doesn't mean they are not good though. Neil Young that way is bad news.

Never liked this album so don't know any good stampers.

----------------------------

Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66 (Herb Alpert Presents)
A&M - Mono
Side A: CP-131 1D
Side B: CP-132 1D
(all letters hand inscribed)


Mono? Get rid of it. There's too much fabulous stereo information on their records to do without it, man!

Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66 (Herb Alpert Presents)
A&M - Stereo
Side A: CA-4 SP-4131-A (triangle symbol) 9450
Side B: CA-5 SP-4132-B (triangle symbol) 9450-X
(all letters hand inscribed)


Remember me saying C-5??!! I know my stampers baby. All the originals have these numbers, for some reason. They vary like crazy.

Best test: listen for spit on the vocals. Forget Mais Que Nada; it has that top 40 wannabe hit song EQ and is always too bright. Play all the rest. Listen for spit. Good pressings, good masterings almost always have less cutter distortion problems. And the right reissue has the least of all. What are the numbers for that one? I can't tell you!

Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66 (Herb Alpert Presents)
A&M - Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs - Stereo
MFSL-1-118-A1 H 1 1 1
MFSL-1-118-B1 H 1 1 1
(hand inscribed)


First stamper. You know why? Didn't sell too well. Know why? Me neither. But you should notice how compressed and lifeless it is, with just an overall less solid feel than the original you have.

Hey, you know who turned Mr. Record (Robert Pincus) on to this record, and to whom he is still grateful for doing so, because it is such a great album, a true audiophile classic? Three guesses.

But, and this is instructive, he then went out and through a process of trial and error over the course of about five years or so found the hot stamper reissue copy. He is the man! You want the gain without the pain? Forget it! Can't be done that way.

----------------------------

Fleetwood Mac - Rumours
Nautilus
Side A) KM+ NR8-F8 side 1 KM-4559 - A8
Side B) KM+ NR8-F8 side 1 KM-4559 - B8
(hand inscribed)


Lose it. Hunt down the good domestic copies.
Find RL in the dead wax. You'll think you threaded up the master tape by accident. Except it's a record.

Try F22 if you can find it too. Very good. RP knows them all. Every bit as important is knowing what to listen for on this album. No side ones come with equally good or bad side twos, which means two copies are a must for the ultimate version.

Don't like it? Neither do I. Reality? I deal with it. You?

-----------------------------

Supertramp - Crime Of The Century
A&M Canada (but pressed in Japan)
Side A) 001A 141
Side B) 001B 141
(machine stamped, not hand inscribed)


LOSE IT!!!! ONE FOR THE BONFIRE!!!
------------------------------

Ok Tom & Steve, clue me in!


And you're asking Steve? That's a good one.

Do you think he has time to play records all day? He has a life, and a big house to live it in.

Mastering is very time consuming, so we have a division of labor arrangement that benefits both of us. I let him do the mastering, he lets me find the good records.

(Also it's a full time job editing my posts, as you may have read.)

Then we let the world enjoy the fruits of our labors. Those that want to anyway.

It's 11 AM. How much work did I get done today? None! Didn't make dime one today yet. But that's okay. Helping. Not hurting. See?

TP

One more thing. YOU GOT TO PLAY THE RECORD.

The number is a guide. Too many things can go wrong for these numbers to be 100% accurate as to the quality of the sound. Reality again, sorry.

[Steve Hoffman]

I'm going to post this for our buddy Peter B. who is busy moving. We were talking about LP pressing variations and he wrote this:

Oh boy, I'm getting an education. It's been a while for me with vinylmania -
even forgot the distinction of the mastering studio and the pressing plant-
I was aware of some of the mastering "signatures" and would look for them,
like Masterdisk for instance. The plants were different. I was aware of
three RCA plants - Indianapolis (the biggest), Hollywood, and Rockaway (NJ).
I liked the Rockaway sound a lot; most of the heavy duty Shaded Dog dealers
in the country used to tell me that the "Indianapolis" issues were the most
in demand. I theorized that, being a smaller plant, Rockaway had better
quality, and I while they were relatively rare, I didn't seem to find any
Rockaway versions that sounded worse than the Indianapolis issues. I wonder
if these plants all got master tape copies of the same generation from the
same master? Pressing was another story. I was amazed at the difference in
appearance, at least, between some of the Hollywood issues and the
Indianapolis issues - the grooves on the "H" varieties sometimes looked
heavier pressed. (fer instance, I have a Jeff Airplane "Volunteers"
Hollywood issue and it looks a lot different than the other plants!)

Believe me, I've been through the mill and back hunting for different
versions of the same album and comparing the results sonically. Usually
there isn't too much difference unless it's a different mastering version,
for instance, some of the Shaded Dogs. In pop, there isn't too much
difference - with one exception. The outstanding, uniformly "BAD" pop
versions were the albums that read "pressed by RCA Music Service." These
seemed to be watered down versions of the originals which were pressed on
other labels. Maybe they got lousy tape copies to work with?

Also, the strange thing about Columbia disks were that their pop, jazz and
rock (when the rock catalogue wasn't being castrated by Mitch Miller) issues
sounded above average (Simon and Garfunkel for instance), while their
classical stuff was HORRIBLE. What was that all about??

Oh well, enough of that subject- don't want to wear you out. We'll just have
to save the subject for our pancake breakfast.

[Paul Chang]

Here is one RCA Living Stereo with notoriously high stamper numbers. My copy is 58S/72S. :eek:
LSC-2252 Tchaikovsky Concerto No.1
Van Cliburn, Pianist; Kiril Kondrashin, Conductor
Side 1: J2 RY-3997-58S
Side 2: J2 RY-3998-72S
Its mono counterpart LM-2252 was not in as high demand.
Side 1: J2 RP-3995-9S
Side 2: J2 RP-3996-7S

This performance was recorded in Carnegie Hall in 1958, the same year Mr. Cliburn won the first International Tchaikovsky Competition in Moscow. He became an instant celebrity and the stereo version of this records was selling like hot cakes. I don't how many copies RCA sold and what the highest stamper numbers are. Tom may have run across later-pressed copies.

Another Cliburn/Kondrashin record made in the same year, at the height of Cliburnmania, the live Carnegie Hall performance of Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 3 in D minor (LSC/LM-2355) was also hot. Mine is a mono mispackaged in a sterero jacket.
Side 1: K2 RP2613-29S (no dash after RP)
Side 2: K 2 R P-2614-29S
The type sizes and spacing are different on both sides. I think 2355 outsold 2252 based on the stereo/mono ratio and 2355 being a live performance. Could RCA have run out of LSC-2355 then resorted to substitute it with LM-2355? :confused: Who knows?

Four years later, Cliburn recorded Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 2 in C minor (LSC/LM-2601) with Fritz Reiner conducting the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. As the Cliburn fever faded, the stamper numbers of my stereo copy are single-digit - 7S/7S.
Side 1: N2RY-2627-7S A1 (hand inscribed but machine like)
Side 2: N2RY-2628-7S B2 (only B2 is hand inscribed)
I don't see A1/B2 on the other two records.

Do the J2, K2, N2 prefixes have any meanings. Are they the pressing plant designations?

[Humorem]

Originally posted by Paul Chang

Side 1: N2RY-2627-7S A1 (hand inscribed but machine like)
Side 2: N2RY-2628-7S B2 (only B2 is hand inscribed)
I don't see A1/B2 on the other two records.

Do the J2, K2, N2 prefixes have any meanings. Are they the pressing plant designations?

That A1/B2 should be the mother numbers. That's the code they use. Opposite the stampers is where you can usually find them. Look on the other titles for them.

Don't know on J2, etc.

There is a guide for all these numbering systems, originally put out by Jim Mitchell.

For the Londons and Deccas there's one that says which letter was assigned to which mastering engineer. Lots of good records cut by "W". If anybody knows how to find it, post it, would ya?



TP

[Paul Chang]

Originally posted by Humorem


That A1/B2 should be the mother numbers. That's the code they use. Opposite the stampers is where you can usually find them. Look on the other titles for them.

Don't know on J2, etc.

There is a guide for all these numbering systems, originally put out by Jim Mitchell.

For the Londons and Deccas there's one that says which letter was assigned to which mastering engineer. Lots of good records cut by "W". If anybody knows how to find it, post it, would ya?



TP Thanks, Tom. I'll look on the opposite side of the dead wax on the other titles.

Is it the same guide called The RCA Bible by Jonathan Valin, who looked over after Jim Mitchell? Long out of print? I have not been able to find a copy.

I think there is also a guide on Decca/London but I don't have one, either.

I would love to get the guides on both RCA and Decca/London.