Sound card Advice

[Gary Freed]

Hi all,

I have a bunch of Single Layer SACD's and would like to make CDR's to play in the car.

My SACD player is the Sony XA77ES and I would like to use the analogue outputs to record onto a CDR in my computer.

What type of sound card should I be looking at for under $300 which will also allow for future expansion.


Very truly yours,

Gary:)

[mudbone]

Hi Gary, I have the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz which I'm happy with. It's well within your budget range.

mud-

[Grant]

Originally posted by mudbone
Hi Gary, I have the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz which I'm happy with. It's well within your budget range.

mud-

I also use the Santa Cruz and am very happy with it. But, when I get my new computer, I will get that M-Audio Revolution card that costs about the same as the Santa Cruz. The Revolution card records real 24-bit/96k audio.

[Gary Freed]

Dave and Grant - thanks for the advice guys!:thumbsup:

I did a little brousing and both cards are roughly the same price.

The 7.1 has some interesting specs but there was one thing that struck me as unusual.

Unlike even many low-end sound cards, the Revolution 7.1 doesn't have internal connectors for auxiliary devices like CD or DVD-ROM drives.

How can you hook up the internal CD or DVD rom drives without internal connectors? :confused:

Something doesn't make sense here.

All the best!

Gary

[skriefal]

You don't need to hook up the CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drives to the sound card with that little audio cable. Windows 2000 and XP (not sure about 98/ME) don't need the cable, as they are capable of extracting the digital data directly from the disc and sending it to your sound card over the PCI bus.

[JoelDF]

Originally posted by skriefal
You don't need to hook up the CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drives to the sound card with that little audio cable. Windows 2000 and XP (not sound about 98/ME) don't need the cable, as they are capable of extracting the digital data directly from the disc and sending it to your sound card over the PCI bus.

Actually, that's possible with any of Microsoft's media players if it's configured to do "digital" in Win 98 thru XP.

However, doing that will be affected by other processes that might be going on, so you'll have to be aware of what else, if anything, you might be doing while listening to your music.

For example. I have a computer at work with a sound card, but it originally had no audio cable to the card from the cd-rom drive. So I just set the software player to read digital, and I was set.

Now then, I do Autocad drafting, design, and 3d renderings on this computer (I'm an Architect - a profession that has nothing to do with the audio profession). The computer is a dual Athlon 1800+ running Win2000Pro, and every time I opened a file, saved a file or ran a rendering, the playback of my CD I was listening to would skip like crazy. It would also skip when opening a Word document. The skip was more like a sample loop would get stuck and stutter for about a second before picking up again. I found the little cable, hooked up the drive right to the sound card, unchecked the "digital" option, and no more skips during file I/O operations. And, for headphone listening while working, I found the sound to actually be better.

That's not for everyone, and for some, they may not being doing any other processor hogging operations while playing the cd-rom drive. For those, the digital option should be fine.

And, none of this has any effect on recording to the soundcard, anyway.

Joel

[rontokyo]

Originally posted by Grant
I also use the Santa Cruz and am very happy with it. But, when I get my new computer, I will get that M-Audio Revolution card that costs about the same as the Santa Cruz. The Revolution card records real 24-bit/96k audio.

Are you aware that the Revolution card does not have RCA analog ins? One other caveat: don't know about the Revolution, but the M-Audio 2496 Audiophile I use does not allow for desktop volume control--meaning those folks with integrated amps will not be able to adjust volume level.

[Gary Freed]

I was looking at Creative Labs website when I found a card that
looks interesting.

The Audigy 2 Platinum External comes with RCA inputs.

If anyone who is familiar with this sound card , any feedback you could give me would be great!

The street price is around $200

http://www.americas.creative.com/products/product.asp?product=730

or


http://www.americas.creative.com/products/category.asp?category=461&maincategory=461

[Grant]

Originally posted by skriefal
You don't need to hook up the CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drives to the sound card with that little audio cable. Windows 2000 and XP (not sure about 98/ME) don't need the cable, as they are capable of extracting the digital data directly from the disc and sending it to your sound card over the PCI bus.

Actually, one can do this in Win98/ME. I've done it for years. The data ripped from a disc does not go through the soundcard at all. This function of ripping is more software/user dependant than anything.

[Gary Freed]

Hi all,

Please bump up to my my last post. My thread seems to be drifting away. Anyone have a life preserver?:D

[Grant]

Originally posted by rontokyo


Are you aware that the Revolution card does not have RCA analog ins? One other caveat: don't know about the Revolution, but the M-Audio 2496 Audiophile I use does not allow for desktop volume control--meaning those folks with integrated amps will not be able to adjust volume level.

Well, most typical consumer cards (Creative, mostly) do not have RCA analog inputs, and neither does the Santa Cruz. They use an 1/8" plug that you use a "Y" stereo adapter for. It works the same as RCA cables. That way, I can still use the RCA interconnect of my choice.

The Revolution card does have a Windows mixer.

That Revolution card is designed for the typical PC user who still wants audiophile sound quality and recording.

[Grant]

Originally posted by Gary Freed
Hi all,

Please bump up to my my last post. My thread seems to be drifting away. Anyone have a life preserver?:D

No. Don't do it. Even the newer Audigy/Extigy cards that record true 24-bit/96k have questionable specs. In typical Creative fashion, they will either not publish the true specs, or will fudge the facts. And, they clog your PC and are hard to install and configure. Oh, if you're just planning to use them for playback, or are a gamer, they are fine. Otherwise, stay away from them!

The OEM versions of the "Live" cards seem unobtrusive, but then the big-name PCs that come with them don't include all of that junk software to clog your PC.

[skriefal]

Originally posted by rontokyo
the M-Audio 2496 Audiophile I use does not allow for desktop volume control--meaning those folks with integrated amps will not be able to adjust volume level. [/B]

I have an M-Audio Audiophile 2496 in my PC, and it includes a control panel/mixer application that allows adjustments to the playback and record levels. The standard Windows mixer app (sndvol32.exe) will allow adjusting the master playback level -- but won't control any of the line-in/record levels.

[Gary Freed]

So the general consensus is that the Creative Audigy 2 Platinum is not as good as the M-Audio cards.

[Grant]

Originally posted by Gary Freed
So the general consensus is that the Creative Audigy 2 Platinum is not as good as the M-Audio cards.

You got THAT right!

[Grant]

Gary,

Don't just stop at the M-Audo cards. There is a whole range of audiophile/pro cards out there that fit in your price range that work and sound well. Echo is another name that is very popular for those who care about sound.

The reason many of us do have the Santa Cruz card is because it's specs and sound come very close to, and approach the higher tier cards. Also, the drivers are solidly written and is very compatible with a variety of systems. It is also low cost and is more available in traditional retail outlets. Two years ago it was the best you could buy for under $100, and still outperforms anything Creative can come up with at less than half the cost! See, Creative has to keep those gamers happy...

Most average PC users never hear of anything higher than a Live or an Audugy and just don't know of their existience. It happens everytime I mention any card like Mia, Gina, M-Audio, Card Deluxe. They all go, "huh?" "What are they?" And then they will all tell you that the Sounblaster is the best money can buy. :rolleyes:

The problem that you most commonly run into with the higher tier cards is the driver issue.

[Gary Freed]

Hi Grant,

Thnaks for working this through with me.

I was looking at the M-Audio Cards at this website and the information seems to reaffirm what Forum members are saying.


Specs don't really tell the whole story. What confuses me is that Delta
M-Audio Series has lower rated specifications than the less expensive Audiophile 2496.

http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/sound_cards.html?OVRAW=m-audio%20audiophile%202496&OVKEY=2496%20audio%20audiophile%20m&OVMTC=standard

With the exception being the top of the line Delta 1010 card by M-Audio

[-=Rudy=-]

Originally posted by Gary Freed
So the general consensus is that the Creative Audigy 2 Platinum is not as good as the M-Audio cards.

Hi, Gary! I had a digital input card (no analog inputs) from AdB, which is now out of business, and it was considered a "semi-pro" card since it could accept either consumer or pro digital formats, either via coax or optical, input and output.

Since I didn't need an A/D converter in the computer, I figured I'd get the Audigy Platinum (this was the first version) and just dump the digital in via one of its coaxial or optical inputs. For kicks, I used my DAT deck as the A/D converter, with recording level control. On my AdB card, the meters in Sound Forge exactly matched the meters on the DAT deck. With the Audigy, something was fishy. The level in Sound Forge was always lower. Finally I cranked the DAT deck so it was deep into overload...Sound Forge STILL wasn't registering near the 0dB mark. As I later found out, there's no way to avoid the digital "processing" on the Audigy card, no matter what method you use.

I'm going to go with another semi-pro card...mainly because I can circumvent the SCMS, and because I know there won't be any mass-market trickery going on.

I got my Audigy for a steal, so I'm not complaining too much...it does play back 5.1 surround OK over a set of small speakers I use. The front panel that fits into a drive bay is also really neat...but for me it's pretty much useless.

[Gary Freed]

Hi Rudy

Thanks for the input.

The M-Audio from the link I posted above appears to have gotten some
respect.

A/D is my main concern. My son is interested in making recordings and
I also will be looking to convert some single layered SACD's and possibley some LPs in the future.

All the best,

Gary

[-=Rudy=-]

I'm going to go with the M-Audio in the near future as well...in fact, I've seen good deals on eBay, where this card is plentiful. (Buyer beware and all that stuff. ;) ) Since the Audiophile 2496 doesn't have all the digital inputs I might want, I might also get their DIO card which is strictly digital in/out, and use it in tandem. When I do this, it will probably be a dedicated PC set up with my audio/home theater rig, networked so I can move the files to a "work" PC in another room for editing. I also like the fact that I can record in 24/96, do my minimal tweaking, cleaning and editing, and then sample it down if needed. The possibility of making DVD-Audio discs in the future sounds enticing. :)

[Grant]

Originally posted by Rudy@A&MCorner




On my AdB card, the meters in Sound Forge exactly matched the meters on the DAT deck. With the Audigy, something was fishy. The level in Sound Forge was always lower. Finally I cranked the DAT deck so it was deep into overload...Sound Forge STILL wasn't registering near the 0dB mark. As I later found out, there's no way to avoid the digital "processing" on the Audigy card, no matter what method you use.


Oh yeah, Gary, most Creative cards have a built-it limiter to prevent overloading. This has been a characteristic of their cards for years. Why? Who knows.

Just another reason not to bother with the Live/Audigy/Extigy cards.

[Gary Freed]

The M-Audio Audiophile 2496 would pobably be a logical choice for my immediate needs.

Thanks everyone for helping out!

Best Regards,

Gary

[rontokyo]

Again, Gary, be warned that you will not be able to adjust the analog input volume level from your desktop. A preamp is required.

[Phil Elliott]

If you are going to have to run to the expense of a preamp, you might want to check out the Terratec DMX 6 Fire - this will give you control over the analogue input. It's the one that comes with the front bay with the S/PDIF sockets. Sound quality is regarded as being in league with the M-Audio Audiophile, although Terratecs marketing seems to have downshifted this one towards the gamers market ??

http://productsen.terratec.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3&menu=101

Tom's Hardware Guide did a head-to-head with this card against the Audigy Platinum. Let's just say the Terratec came away as the one to use if you actually want to >record< anything :thumbsup:

Phil

[Gary Freed]

Originally posted by rontokyo
Again, Gary, be warned that you will not be able to adjust the analog input volume level from your desktop. A preamp is required.

Hi Ron,

I thought I was sold on the M-Audio

You're not happy with yours?

With the generic sound card I'm using now, I don't run my CD player or tape player through the pre-amp. The CD player or tape player goes directly into the sound card.

Do you know which of the M-Audio series allows for volume adjustment?

Originally posted by Phil Elliott
If you are going to have to run to the expense of a preamp, you might want to check out the Terratec DMX 6 Fire - this will give you control over the analogue input. It's the one that comes with the front bay with the S/PDIF sockets. Sound quality is regarded as being in league with the M-Audio Audiophile, although Terratecs marketing seems to have downshifted this one towards the gamers market ??

http://productsen.terratec.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3&menu=101

Tom's Hardware Guide did a head-to-head with this card against the Audigy Platinum. Let's just say the Terratec came away as the one to use if you actually want to >record< anything :thumbsup:

Phil

Phil,

I was initially looking at the Terratec DMX 6 fire but was able to find the
same degree of positive testimonials as I searched through the internet.