Please take a moment to read...

[Holy Zoo]

this thread here:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?threadid=2043

There have been a bumpy spots in the forum this week, and I think it's worth our time to think just a bit about how we can all better listen to each other, and try and not make things personal.

Remember, we're here to have fun!

HZ

[Grant]

I honestly didn't see any personal attacks in that thread. I just know that I get pissed when someone tries to tell me I don't listen hard enough or that I don't know what to listen for. I also like to make up my own mind about what I like and don't like.

[YaQuin]

Uh Oh, here we go again...

I just wanted to say Thank You, Zoo. My opinions have always been nearly 90 degrees from the norm (even in real life) and I was wondering if this board was going to become a strict monoculture.

It is good to know opinions of all kind are welcome.

Regards to all...

[Holy Zoo]

Originally posted by Grant
I honestly didn't see any personal attacks in that thread.

There isn't any! :) Actually, I was referring to Steve's post in that message.

I just know that I get pissed when someone tries to tell me I don't listen hard enough or that I don't know what to listen for. I also like to make up my own mind about what I like and don't like.

Yes, I know - it can be infuriating. But believe me - if I've learned anything from many years of moderting groups, I know that fighting back by calling people names or saying things like "you're full of ****") escalates very quickly into a nasty flame war. Everyone loses, the people fighting and all the people around them who are trying to have a reasonable discussion. And nearly always some sane and sensible members leave for good, shaking their heads in disgust.

What I suggest instead is a calm response. Point out your position. State why you think they are wrong.

And if someone constantly drives you buggy and you truly don't respect their opinion, don't argue with them. Or block them from the "user cp". You'll never see their posts again! Poof!

:)

Let me know if you have some thoughts on this. I'm always open to hearing what you feel we can do to improve our community.

[Claus]

correct Holy... I also don't like nasty words in forums!

[count.d]

In an older catalog I say there's a new and better version of Crime on Heavy Vinyl. Guaranteed to murder your copy. (What is yours by the way?)

This is Humorem asking Holy Zoo the copy of a better lp.

DON'T TELL HIM HOLY ZOO!!

Now you know how it feels.

This is the cause of a lot of the aggravation on the threads.

Humorem,

All that people want to know on this board is: IS THE COPY THAT THEY OWN AS GOOD AS IT GETS. Do you honestly think that anyone would go to the extent of ordering lp after lp to find the exact stamper. No.
I bought a sealed copy of MFSL DSOTM lp last week, it will be the last copy I ever buy at those prices. Even if you told me otherwise. How would you know the stamper anyway when you buy these? It's sealed.

I take you opinions, listen and do my own judgement. You say Vivante -Outlandos D'Armour is the best you have heard. I say it's been pressed way off from the original masters. It's muffled all over the range. A stamper difference can't have that much an effect on the small amount that Vivante press nowa days.

I think you would make more friends/sales from this message board if you didn't state that what everyone else has is absolutely crap and everything you have for sale is absolutely superb.

[Sckott]

For me, I don't mind hunting down a few mint LPs in the bargain bin or even on the top shelf as long as it's fun, and doesn't cost a mint.

Anyone can do this on their own. It's more FUN that way!

Despite just HOW many copies of Abbey Road and Who's Next and Teaser I own, I'll surely find a mint copy for under $5, notice that the pressing, stamper and issue is different, as long as its mint I'll take it home, spin it and enjoy it! I talked about this in a thread before Tom came through. Its what makes record collecting fun. If the copy is physically so-so shape (like undetectable groove wear) for $4 or lower, it can go into the trash, or I just use the cover to 'artwork' the bathroom or something.

Tom Port isn't exactly eliquent in how he comes across, but his idea isn't new or impossible for any of us. It all goes back to the "what you think is wonderful means more to you than someone else's opinion".

In mine, you don't need to listen to mine, Tom's or anyones. Learning from experience can be more fun, though - so don't forget that.

I've bought like 9-11 copies, all different issues of Who's Next. The one that really made me go "WOW" was a Fabrique In France issue, made in 1991. Black label Polydoor. It cost me $9. The MCA Heavy Vinyl issue I didn't like very much - And people are buying mint/sealed ones for $60!

Hope you understand my point. Following opinions here are great, but don't forget your own trip.

[Ronflugelguy]

As we all know, opinions are like something else everyone has.... I know, I manage about twenty women!!!!!!!;)

[Holy Zoo]

Originally posted by Ronflugelguy
As we all know, opinions are like something else everyone has.... I know, I manage about twenty women!!!!!!!;)

Are you sure they're not managing you? :D

[Humorem]

I think you would make more friends/sales from this message board if you didn't state that what everyone else has is absolutely crap and everything you have for sale is absolutely superb.

Well, let me state bluntly, so we understand each other here, that 90% of the non-DCC audiophile titles that people discuss on this site I don't like at all. I've heard most all of them. I have spent many years doing the comparisons and I think I have learned a lot.

And when I tell someone about something that is better, does that hurt them, or help them? They don't have to buy it from me.

Cat Stevens on MOFI? Hey, I said go buy a cheap domestic copy, don't pay those collector prices for a piece of junk like theirs. Hey, to me that's helping.

You want to hang on to your audiophile pressings? That's ok with me.

You want better records? I can tell you, in my opinion, how to get them.

See? Helping. Not hurting.

I give out this hard earned information for free, with one very notable exception. That's the one record everybody is up in arms about. Who knew? People have to have the best Dark Side? Why? You haven't heard that record until you're blue in the face?

Be that as it may. Here's why I can NEVER tell you what I know about that record.

If I tell you the magic stampers, you can call up all the other dealers and ask them for their copies. They will sell them to you at their regular price. How would they ever find out which one was better? Hold it up to the light?

But I won't sell you one at the regular price. I charge more for better records. And you get what you pay for, IMO.

So let's say I tell you the numbers. If I tell anyone, even privately, it might get out, and then it would be posted and everyone will know.

Now what happens when I have ten copies of Dark Side that aren't the hot one? (About one out of ten are, maybe even less.)

Nobody wants them. I can't sell them. They want the hot one. So now I lose money, sitting on a bunch of records those in the know won't buy. Woe is me.

You say you bought a sealed one. No wonder you're pissed. You don't know if it's any good. But you didn't buy it from me. Why should I help you get records from someone else? That's bad business in my book.

This reminds me of the guys who go into stereo stores to audition equipment all day long and then buy it online. Let others do the work, then when it comes time to pay the bill, skip out the back.

But earlier you made the point that you listen for yourself. You even disagree with my assessments. But you ARE asking for my free advice.

(Scratches head here. Momentary pause.)

Holy Zoo and other buyers are going to get tons of better records from me. Like most of my customers, he is going to be amazed at how much better they sound than the versions he has or has heard. Because that's what I do. I'm very good at it. It's very time consuming (60+ hours a week), not very lucrative (IMO), but it has its rewards: satisfied customers. Some people treat me like Steve Hoffman. They revere me. I have made such a difference in their lives. They are very thankful.

Other people think I'm full of it.

When you are as opinionated and passionate as I am about this subject, you better be prepared to deal with those kinds of reactions from people. Believe me, I'm more than used to it by now.

By the way, I just heard, just last night, the best Santana First Album I ever heard in my life!

It's astounding. Takes that recording to a new level. Night and day better than the best I ever heard: gold cd, regular cd, new remixed cd, and 20 different LPs, including the heavy vinyl one from Germany by ARS that people used to like.

Noe as good as this one, IMO.

What Is it you ask?

I can't tell you.

Oh, if you are a customer of mine, you can read all about it in the next catalog. There will be an extensive review, which will take me hours to write (almost as long as this post!) I will spend hours playing other copies in comparison. See? Helping. Not hurting.

But you, why should I just tell? What have you done for me lately? Har har..... Made me waste a bunch of time responding to this, the way I see it.

But don't worry. The information will get out sooner or later and you will be able to buy the record from someone else I guess.

Regards, TP

[Larry Naramore]

Claus. Nice website but it's harder than heck to understand.

[Grant]

Originally posted by Humorem



Other people think I'm full of it.

When you are as opinionated and passionate as I am about this

I think it's cool that you're passionate about what you sell and sound, and if I thought you had something I was interested in these days I would consider buying from you, but what turning many people off here is your communication style. I'm reading what you have to say, and I understand your positions on things, but I always have to brace myself for the next patronizing remark.

No one here knows more than me about having an unpopular opinion!

[Steve Hoffman]

Grant,

I know that most folks who just know Tom Port through his posts here or sometimes on the phone think that his statements are sometimes patronizing, but actually, he is hardest on himself.

To Tom, when something is a little off, it's CRAP! If the sun goes behind a cloud, the day has turned to CRAP! and so on. If he burns some toast---same reaction. I'm used to it, it doesn't phase me at all any more 'cause I can read between the lines.

Ya see, I've known him since 1995, and I can say, that regardless of his sometimes patronizing style, he really means well. It's ALL about the music to him. He has no patience for slow thinking; his own or anyone elses'. Sure, he is tough on someone with an opinion other than his own, but he is just saying out loud what we would think as well. We all think we are right. I think he feels that at the very least, people's pre conceived notions about music (and vinyl) need shaking up. And he does indeed know how to push people's buttons, mine included. But, since I have spent many hours with him, I know that his only intention is to have people see the light about the possibilities of vinyl reproduction. Sure he makes money from this, but he will never get rich from it, that's not his main concern.

I've seen him work: 20 different pressing variations of Roxy Music "Avalon" in front of him. Checking each one, cleaning it first, then slowly collating his notes until, EUREKA, the best sounding version is revealed.

He does it so we don't have to. And if in the meantime he finds ANOTHER version that is better, he would be the first to admit it.

So, that's my little speech. Tom has been an honest and loyal friend to me over the years, and even though he might make some of you feel a little touchy here with his posting style, I think you'll agree that we do lean something from him.

[Todd Fredericks]

Good post about Tom, Steve...

I've only experienced Tom's thoughts on this board (and have heard of him through other posts) but I really enjoy his passion. I don't have to agree with him on everything (nor anyone has to agree with me or anyone else). I don't see him as being too pushy. Maybe because I'm a New Yorker I'm used to it? I see that he has a lot to offer to this board and I again enjoy his posts. Keep'em coming...

Todd

P.S. You should see how I get in my "passionate" conversations with people. I've had people walk away from me and I still continue ranting in an empty room...

[Humorem]

1995. A milestone in my audio life, a turning point I could even say.

Oh those halcyon days of hanging out at Acoustic Image on Saturdays with Steve, sick of being cooped up in his house after mastering all week, with me mumbling under my breath about having to listen to Patricia Barber and the other audiophile trash they used to play in the store...

Ah, sweet memories...

TP

[Sckott]

Tom:

You should go over many different Rock/Pop Lps in your collection that you've scrutinized to bone level and start writing a book. I'm not being sarcastic. It woulnd't be like your effort would be challanged from people doing the same thing you do (such as gardening or how to love the corporate world). It woulnd't have to be very big, but it could well be a cookbook for vinyl lovers who's numbers are growing!

There's people who'd be interested. Sell the knowledge. You certainly have typing skills that are more than strong enough! Maybe Jeff and Clauvis (sp) can help you with illustrations!

[Steve Hoffman]

Yeah, and with the editing skills I have polished editing every single one of Tom's posts', I could have a whole new career as well. Or work for Readers' Digest.:rolleyes:

[Grant]

I know, but just think, what is EVERYONE on this board were just as feverent about what they think is best sounding and had his same communication style? You get the ols BSN board, that's what.

I'm thicker-skinned than that. I work with the public! But some of his posts feel like an assault. I probably just don't like overbearing people, and i'm not from New York.