Bridge Over Troubled Water

[count.d]

Does anyone know the best pressing of this classic?

Is the Classic records pressing, MFSL or CBS Mastersound any good?

I think the MFSL sucks.

Humorem, over to you.

[Humorem]

Originally posted by count.d
Does anyone know the best pressing of this classic?

Is the Classic records pressing, MFSL or CBS Mastersound any good?

I think the MFSL sucks.

Humorem, over to you.

I'll take it from here, thanks.:)

MFSL sucks all right!

I like the Classic and CBS half speed and the RIGHT domestic copies. They all sound almost identical to me. The Classic is cheap ($27 is cheap for music of this calibre in my book), available and quiet.

TP

[Steve Hoffman]

For those of you CD fans, the current domestic version works.

[Dave B]

Any opinions on the Mastersound CD?

[David R. Modny]

I know I may be in the minority here, but I actually prefer Doug Sax's work on the Mastersound CD a tad over the Bob Irwin curent CD version. It's just a bit more delicate, refined and rich.

Yes, the overload is still there at the end of Bridge (I'm only saying this because awhile back someone mentioned that the current Classic "45" version doesn't have this...anyone else confirm this?)

The first Mastersound CD titles did take a liitle flack due to the SBM noise-shaping process, as it stood, at the time. But I still like Doug's the best on CD by a hair.

Though, the original Columbia 360 sounds great IMO! Noisy pressings abound, but tonally it really is sweet.

[Steve Hoffman]

Never heard the Mastersound. Sony sent me a copy, but DCC's Marshall Blonstein palmed it before I could listen. :)

The Bob Irwin current version has been tweaked, that's for sure. Sigh.

However, the current version is probably nice and cheap out there and the Mastersound version is probably way too much $$ by now.

[Humorem]

Originally posted by David R. Modny

Yes, the overload is still there at the end of Bridge (I'm only saying this because awhile back someone mentioned that the current Classic "45" version doesn't have this...anyone else confirm this?)
I can confirm that IMO the Classic 45 is hard and unmusical and is to be avoided at all costs.

TP

[sgb]

Originally posted by count.d
Does anyone know the best pressing of this classic?

Is the Classic records pressing, MFSL or CBS Mastersound any good?

I think the MFSL sucks.

Humorem, over to you.

So does the CBS Mastersound half-speed.

I'm not Humorem, but having sampled nearly three dozen different pressings, I'd have to say that the early 360 stereo pressings are the best I've heard.

[Mal]

Has anyone compared the aforementioned versions with the UK "Millennium" CD edition (COLUMBIA MILLEN 2 - 4952142000)?

I heard the Mastersound version a few years ago and recall it sounding pretty good but I'm also impressed with the Millennium edition.....

Also available in this Millennium series (they come in nice oversized cardboard replica sleeves) are The Byrds - "Sweetheart Of The Rodeo" and ELO - "Out Of The Blue" among others. Has anyone heard any of this series?

[Humorem]

Originally posted by sgb


So does the CBS Mastersound half-speed.

I'm not Humorem, but having sampled nearly three dozen different pressings, I'd have to say that the early 360 stereo pressings are the best I've heard.

Could be you have a different stamper than mine. There are a few. Mine sounds great I think but I haven't played it lately...

TP

[Steve Hoffman]

Originally posted by Malc S
Has anyone compared the aforementioned versions with the UK "Millenium" CD edition (COLUMBIA MILLEN 2 - 4952142000)?



I've never heard this version. If Bob Irwin's name is all over it, it's the same as the current US version. If not, hmmmm...

[Mal]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman


I've never heard this version. If Bob Irwin's name is all over it, it's the same as the current US version. If not, hmmmm...

It's not the Bob Irwin version. I'm pretty sure it uses mastering not found elsewhere (I could be wrong....).

As I said, there were a few classic albums released in this series here in the UK in 2000. I assume that they were all mastered specifically for the series. Whether this means that original 1st gen. masters weren't necessarily used I'm not sure.

I compared this version of BOTW to the "Old Friends" 3CD box tracks and the "Millennium" CD was definitely superior.....

[Steve w]

The mastersound one was good at the time. With today's better technology though, the new one is better.

[Dan]

I saw a UK copy the other day. Looks 70's to Early 80's vintage. It had a red "CBS" label on the vinyl and a real thin sleeve.

[David R. Modny]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
[B]Never heard the Mastersound. Sony sent me a copy, but DCC's Marshall Blonstein palmed it before I could listen. :)



What was cool about the Sony CD/Sax version when it first came out was that they FINALLY found the presumably lost two-track album master at the Iron Mountain storage facility and were able to use it.

Here's the original Producer's Note:

"This Mastersound project has been painstakingly remastered from the original analog master tape. Our approach took into consideration the original equilization notes, three vintages of Lp pressings and previous CD issues of this album. In an effort to achieve the optimum playback of the tape, all the original splices were cleaned and remade. Also, different heads and variations of machine alignment were auditioned before going ahead with the final transfer. The signal path was kept as simple as possible to retain the purity and intergrity of the master tape and each master supplied to the CD plant was an original. No digital copying or cloning was done.

Due to the unprecedented popularity of this album, the original master tape was used a great many times for cutting laquers to satisfy worldwide demand. We are aware of certain artifacts resulting from oxide loss in the tape. Rather than try to patch these things from safety copies, we preferred to keep these small blemishes in order to preserve the full sonic character of the original master. We hope the discriminating listener will agree. However, some ticks were removed where it was possible to do so with absolutely no compromise to the sound quality. Our goal has been to faithfully preserve the great sounds on this master tape recorded over twenty years ago."


My questions would be - with different digital masters being supplied to each pressing plant, and assuming no changes were made with each pass, would there be any theoretical chances of being any slight sonic differences from the final product of each pressing plant?

Also, being that this was done in 1991, I believe, what techinques would have been used to "remove the ticks"?

[Steve Hoffman]

Well, if the tic removal was done in the post mastering stage, I dunno. Probably on an old Sony 1630 editor.

BTW, there were not multiple pressing plants used for this, just one. Probably only one digital master.

Sounds like they went to great pains to get it right.

[Cousin It]

Originally posted by Malc S
Has anyone compared the aforementioned versions with the UK "Millenium" CD edition (COLUMBIA MILLEN 2 - 4952142000)?

I heard the Mastersound version a few years ago and recall it sounding pretty good but I'm also impressed with the Millenium edition.....

Also available in this Millenium series (they come in nice oversized cardboard replica sleeves) are The Byrds - "Sweetheart Of The Rodeo" and ELO - "Out Of The Blue" among others. Has anyone heard any of this series?



I remember reading somewhere ages back that the U.K Millenium pressings were using the old Mastersound masterings and I recall seeing Blonde On Blonde here in Sydney(hope my memory's not crap on both counts).

[Patrick M]

Originally posted by David R. Modny
Also, being that this was done in 1991, I believe, what techinques would have been used to "remove the ticks"?

You mean the CD was mastered in '91? Could be, but I didn't think the MasterSound series was out in the US till '93, and BOTW was not in the first batch.

[Steve Hoffman]

Yeah, 1993.

Sony developed their Mastersound series after they saw what a fuss the folks made over our DCC Gold CD of "Highway 61 Revisited" by Bob Dylan.

They thought "Hey, we can do this ourselves, we don't need DCC".

Now you know the reason we didn't get to do "Blonde On Blonde", etc.

[David R. Modny]

You're right Patrick. I was just roughing it by memory. I just checked my old ICE magazine collection and it says - May 11, 1993.

[Patrick M]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Sony developed their Mastersound series after they saw what a fuss the folks made over our DCC Gold CD of "Highway 61 Revisited" by Bob Dylan.

Heh. Maybe you should have gotten all the Dylan at one time and released it simultaneously. How many years would it have taken you to find all the tapes?


My thanks to Sony for the terrific Blonde MasterSound remix.

[Cousin It]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Yeah, 1993.

Sony developed their Mastersound series after they saw what a fuss the folks made over our DCC Gold CD of "Highway 61 Revisited" by Bob Dylan.

They thought "Hey, we can do this ourselves, we don't need DCC".

Now you know the reason we didn't get to do "Blonde On Blonde", etc.

Ha! Typical there are always geniuses who think that if they can do it why don't we.Richard Weize at Bear Family also had record company types scratching their heads wondering what that German was doing snooping around releasing these big box sets but they never resorted to releasing 16 CD sets of Jim Reeves.Hmmm,I wonder why ??? ;) ;) ;)

[Mal]

Originally posted by Cousin It




I remember reading somewhere ages back that the U.K Millenium pressings were using the old Mastersound masterings and I recall seeing Blonde On Blonde here in Sydney(hope my memory's not crap on both counts).

Your memory is correct about the Blonde On Blonde disc being part of the "Millennium" CD series.

However, I'm not sure that ELO "Out Of The Blue" & The Byrds "Sweetheart Of The Rodeo" were issued in the CBS Mastersound series (as far as I can ascertain). Since these were issued as part of the SONY/Columbia "Millennium" series it leaves it open to debate as to whether any of this series were made using the Mastersound masters.

Is there anyone on the forum who owns both the Mastersound & "Millennium" CDs of BOTW who can compare them for us?

[Humorem]

Originally posted by Humorem


I'll take it from here, thanks.:)

MFSL sucks all right!

I like the Classic and CBS half speed and the RIGHT domestic copies. They all sound almost identical to me. The Classic is cheap ($27 is cheap for music of this calibre in my book), available and quiet.

TP

I should add that my friend Robert Pincus has reminded me that the Classic is a bit tipped up on the top end, like most of their records.

You may be able to find a domestic copy that is less bright, but 9 out 10 are not so hot in all other respects imo.

TP

[TimB]

I really like the sound of the Classic vinyl version, much better atmasphere and the like. For more casual listening, the Mastersound gold cd is the one to listen too! I have the CBS Mastersound LP, but I have not listened to it for a while. I will dig it out and give it a relisten.;)