Is a tube output cd player with a tube amp overkill??

[audio]

Trying to decide on whether to keep my standard cd player or my tube output unit. I'd like to have opinions on whether or not you think it's too much to use a tube cd player with a tube amp. There are those who would say that such a combination would be too syrupy or too colored. Is there any sonic benefit in terms of the qualities of tubes to using a tube cd player or does running any source through the tube amp take care of the necessary tube duties in itself? What would you use, generally speaking, if you were in this situation assuming both players are fine sounding units?

[Steve Hoffman]

Overkill.

[audio]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Overkill.


Sorry, Steve, but do you mean that it is indeed overkill to use a tube cd player with a tube amp, or are you saying that you would suggest "overkill" meaning the more tubes the better? Thanks!

[Vedric]

Overkill if you listen to syrupy heavily colored tube gear. Tube gear done right isn't colored, just more dynamically open and alive IMO.

Solid state can be as colored as tube gear. Its all about the balance and what makes you happy. Go listen to some live unamplified bands and find your ear! :)

Vedric

[Steve Hoffman]

When you put on a pair of "rose colored glasses" (think vacuum tube amp), everything looks great through them. Your first tendency is to add another pair of rose colored glasses on the top of the first and another, but you eventually can't see any more.

In other words, too many tubes in your system will blind your ears to accurate sound. Leave the tubes for the preamp and amps.

[pigmode]

Your question is so open ended that most any answer would have limited applicability. What tube cdp? What are the rest of the components? There is a tube in the Audio Note non-upsampling players but from what I understand, they are made to work in all tube systems.

Is this a serious question or are you just musing out loud?

[audio]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
When you put on a pair of "rose colored glasses" (think vacuum tube amp), everything looks great through them. Your first tendency is to add another pair of rose colored glasses on the top of the first and another, but you eventually can't see any more.

In other words, too many tubes in your system will blind your ears to accurate sound. Leave the tubes for the preamp and amps.


Thanks, Steve. Ultimately, I will let my ears decide. But I'm setting the preliminary ground work for when my amp is finally finished and I am able to test everything out. Your point makes perfect sense to me and confirms what I already suspected, but I wasn't sure and so I had to ask. Another thing this makes me think of is your DCC cds or the Beatles lps that were mastered through tubes. Would this magnify the "rose colored glasses" effect in a similar way that may obscure accuracy or not? What do you think?

[Gary]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
When you put on a pair of "rose colored glasses" (think vacuum tube amp), everything looks great through them. Your first tendency is to add another pair of rose colored glasses on the top of the first and another, but you eventually can't see any more.

In other words, too many tubes in your system will blind your ears to accurate sound. Leave the tubes for the preamp and amps.

On the flip side of things....

I have the McIntosh MX110 and MC240. I am looking at a SS phono preamp instead of looking for a tube phono preamp for the TT.

Is this a good thing, Steve? I presume so...

Sorry to divert the thread, Prix - I just was hesitant in starting a new thread for a simpler question.

Gary

:nauga:

[Steve Hoffman]

Originally posted by Gary


On the flip side of things....

I have the McIntosh MX110 and MC240. I am looking at a SS phono preamp instead of looking for a tube phono preamp for the TT.

Is this a good thing, Steve? I presume so...

Sorry to divert the thread, Prix - I just was hesitant in starting a new thread for a simpler question.

Gary

:nauga:

Gary, I like tube phono stages, but in YOUR special case...wait a minute. What about the phono section of the MX-110???? :confused:

[audio]

Originally posted by sasaki kojiro
Your question is so open ended that most any answer would have limited applicability. What tube cdp? What are the rest of the components? There is a tube in the Audio Note non-upsampling players but from what I understand, they are made to work in all tube systems.

Is this a serious question or are you just musing out loud?


The cd players are a Music Hall CD 25 and a Heart C6000 with Amperex gold pin 7308s. The amplifier is a Harman Kardon A500 with a few minor mods such as bypassing the tone circuit and adding a standby switch. In addition, there have been several upgrades such as some Hovland Musicaps, a better power cord, etc. Speakers will be vintage Tannoy Monitor Gold 12" monitors.

This is a non-serious question. That's why I asked.:rolleyes:

[audio]

Originally posted by Gary


On the flip side of things....

I have the McIntosh MX110 and MC240. I am looking at a SS phono preamp instead of looking for a tube phono preamp for the TT.

Is this a good thing, Steve? I presume so...

Sorry to divert the thread, Prix - I just was hesitant in starting a new thread for a simpler question.

Gary

:nauga:


Perfectly fine, Gary. It really doesn't bother me at all. Feel free to divert the thread all you want. I find all of this to be incredibly interesting.

[Gary]

Gary, I like tube phono stages, but in YOUR special case...wait a minute. What about the phono section of the MX-110????

It's weak. I tried out an "Aragon~something or the other" SS phono pre (on loan) and it was an amazing improvement.

Rob at Applause Audio also recommended a phono pre over the direct connection. He sells and services all sorts of interesting stuff... I presume he knows his stuff.

I'd hope so anyway.... :sigh:

[Steve Hoffman]

Originally posted by Gary


It's weak. I tried out an "Aragon~something or the other" SS phono pre (on loan) and it was an amazing improvement.

Rob at Applause Audio also recommended a phono pre over the direct connection. He sells and services all sorts of interesting stuff... I presume he knows his stuff.

I'd hope so anyway.... :sigh:

Sure, you have enough tubes. So go for a nice accurate phono section...

[audio]

Steve, how about a tube tuner vs nice older solid state HK or Marantz or something? Same story with the tube cd player? Too rosy?

A tuner is the last vintage piece I need to buy right now since I sold my Arcam. My budget right now is around $50-$150. This opens up the playing field quite a bit in terms of vintage units. Any ideas or recommendations?

[Tony Plachy]

Originally posted by prix
Trying to decide on whether to keep my standard cd player or my tube output unit. I'd like to have opinions on whether or not you think it's too much to use a tube cd player with a tube amp. There are those who would say that such a combination would be too syrupy or too colored. Is there any sonic benefit in terms of the qualities of tubes to using a tube cd player or does running any source through the tube amp take care of the necessary tube duties in itself? What would you use, generally speaking, if you were in this situation assuming both players are fine sounding units?

Prix, If you have both units let your ears be your guide. I have a SS SACD player going into all tubes after that, I think it sounds really good, however, I have an all tube system for vinyl and it is my preferred front end. I would love to try the new Musical Fidelity tube SACD player in my system, but I have not had the chance to do so yet. Use your ears!

[Steve Hoffman]

Originally posted by prix
Steve, how about a tube tuner vs nice older solid state HK or Marantz or something? Same story with the tube cd player? Too rosy?

A tuner is the last vintage piece I need to buy right now since I sold my Arcam. My budget right now is around $50-$150. This opens up the playing field quite a bit in terms of vintage units. Any ideas or recommendations?


A nice Scott tube tuner, from the early 1960's. A 350 or LT-110 (kit version) gives good sound.

These sound really great and are cheap (make sure it's aligned correctly and not a junker)...

http://users.rcn.com/jbyrns/TunerHistory.html

[pigmode]

I had an Ah! Njoe Tjoeb 4000, and it wasn't tuby at all, but it was just a lower-mid level player despite the mods. I prefer non-tubed players, but it depends how the tube is used. I think with Music Fidelity and Audio Note, the tube has a less significant effect than with something like a Jolida, and I believe their tubes are soldered to the board.

I would say start off non tube, then later you can decide if you want a more euphonic sound. I just don't think you can go too far wrong either way because you don't even know whayt the system will sound like until it is together. You can obsess about it from now to then, but only then will you really know what you want. Everyone has their own taste.

[audio]

Originally posted by sasaki kojiro
I had an Ah! Njoe Tjoeb 4000, and it wasn't tuby at all, but it was just a lower-mid level player despite the mods. I prefer non-tubed players, but it depends how the tube is used. I think with Music Fidelity and Audio Note, the tube has a less significant effect than with something like a Jolida, and I believe their tubes are soldered to the board.

I would say start off non tube, then later you can decide if you want a more euphonic sound. I just don't think you can go too far wrong either way because you don't even know whayt the system will sound like until it is together. You can obsess about it from now to then, but only then will you really know what you want. Everyone has their own taste.

I see what you are saying. Steve's point about accurate sound is well taken, but ultimately I may prefer the colored, rosy sound, who knows. On one hand it's pointless to talk about it until I've hooked everything up, but I'm having such a hard time waiting for my amp to be finished, I've got to talk about something tubes in the meantime!

[Metralla]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Leave the tubes for the preamp and amps.
What about that tuna mate?

Edited: whoops, sorry. I see we got onto that topic. I should have read the whole thread before posting. Blurt.

Regards,
Geoff

[audio]

Originally posted by Metralla

What about that tuna mate?

Edited: whoops, sorry. I see we got onto that topic. I should have read the whole thread before posting. Blurt.

Regards,
Geoff


Huh? Tuna? What's fish got to do with anything?:confused: Geoff, have you had one too many Foster's tonight? :cheers:

[pigmode]

Originally posted by prix


I see what you are saying. Steve's point about accurate sound is well taken, but ultimately I may prefer the colored, rosy sound, who knows. On one hand it's pointless to talk about it until I've hooked everything up, but I'm having such a hard time waiting for my amp to be finished, I've got to talk about something tubes in the meantime!

I hear you. Have you ordered the speakers yet? You are going with alnico magnets right?

[Gary]

Tuna? Sounds fishy to me, Prix! :laugh:

Get it? Tuna? Fishy? Oh, never mind....

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
So go for a nice accurate phono section...

Thanks for your comments, Steve! Appreciate it!

Now I have to select which one.... by listening! :)

[audio]

Originally posted by sasaki kojiro


I hear you. Have you ordered the speakers yet? You are going with alnico magnets right?

Yes, see my earlier post. They are vintage Tannoy Monitor Gold 12" units in their original factory cabinets. I CAN'T WAIT TO HOOK THIS SYSTEM UP AND HEAR IT!!!!:goodie:

[Metralla]

Originally posted by prix
have you had one too many Foster's tonight?
No self-respecting Aussie drinks that stuff mate. I'm addicted to the local San Francisco brew - Anchor Steam. Which reminds me ...

(tuna = tuner)

Regards,
Geoff

[audio]

Originally posted by Metralla

No self-respecting Aussie drinks that stuff mate.


Kind of like Americans and Michelob, I guess.:D


So, what's your take on all of this? Tube cd player, tube tuner, tube amp? S.s. cd player, tube amp, tube tuner, etc.?