Nuggets Psychedelic Era Box Set

[jligon]

Nuggets: Original Artyfacts from the First Psychedelic Era, 1965-1968

I love the content of this box set but does anyone have an opinion on the sound. Typical Rhino?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00000AFWZ/qid=1014428244/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-8254460-2765637

[Andrew]

I liked it. :::shrugs:::

[indy mike]

Hmmmm, my take on this is: typical Rhino harsh sound - why does Rhino gotta insist on that harsh, midrangy sound? I doubt the average buyer is gonna pick that set up and make a spur of the moment purchase, so why gear the sonics towards the boombox crowd??? Too much mono - waaaaay too much - at least half the set coulda been twin guns a' blazin' stereo (ok, I can sense the "but they were 45's in mono to start with" crowd getting restless) - if you set the Wayback Machine to Elektra's groundbreaking Nuggets LP one finds a lotta stereo cuts; the Sire reissue did the same. Bill I. boasts how he fought for mono in the liners - well, then at least use clean mono that's not been toyed with to get that famous Rhino screech. Bob Irwin did legwork for that box and Rhino turned down most of the stereo he dug up; I don't even wanna think what multitracks coulda been unearthed to give us some more first time stereo... Just so's you think I completely hate this thing, the booklet is superfine dandy, and some clean mono showed up instead of the usual crummy rechanneled sound that normally shows up on some tunes (Psychotic Reaction, You're Gonna Miss Me); HOWEVER, some mono takes of songs like the incredible psych tune I Live in the Springtime by the Lemon Drops flat out sucks in mono (where's the bass???) - get the same song in stereo on the Collectables label Lemon Drops cd set and watch as your jaw hits the floor - whoa dad ultra hi-fi stereo that really sounds great. Rhino was probably the only label that reissues older stuff that had the moola to handle the licensing nightmare, and it's great fun to have, but the sonics shouldn't be high on your priority list. Look to other labels' reissues (Sundazed for starters) for better sound - buy the box if you love garage bands, but buy other labels stuff if you're just looking for specific songs...

[Matt]

Well, if the guy wants to use mono, I try not to hold it against him (though preferences should be made on a case by case basis, and there are some recordings in that box set that are definitely better in stereo).

However, if you get this box, a parametric EQ definitely helps. Follow Steve's advice on filtering out some of the top (shave one to three decibels at 10k, 8k, and 6k with a slope 6), and restore some of the bass if it sounds like it needs it.

Oh, and just for the record, content-wise, this is one of the best box sets out there, and unless you want to seek out the 45's one by one, this is a nice place to get it in one shot. Just remember to tweak the sound.

[btomarra]

FWIW I liked it. Yes, it has that Rhino trademark harshness, but compared with the latest stuff Bill Inglot has done, it's not too bad.

I liked the song selection, but some curious choices. Louie Louie is from 1963. What's it doing on a 1965-1968 box? They chose american garage bands that mimic the likes of the Stones, and Them. Well we did get Baby Please Don't Go (a Them song) from the Amboy Dukes, but where is Gloria from the Shadows of Knight?

And I read somewhere they couldn't license 96 Tears by ? and the Mysterians (pity!)

So, it's kind of a mixed bag, but not too bad of a mixed bag.

Hope that helps.

Brian

:)

[indy mike]

Yep, curious song choices like Louie Louie pop up when lotsa gen-u-wine garage gurus coulda made the cut instead. You gotta love the motivation behind that spurt of American kids bashing away in the garage - Yanks wanna be like the British invaders, who in turn wanna be like 50's US rockers ala Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Elvez, and Eddie Cochran (oops, don't forget Gene Vincent)... As for the EQ, I'd rather have the right choices made upfront as evidenced by Steve's swell touch and not have to fiddle with eq'ing meself (although I do occasionally push in the tone control button on my Adcom preamp and sneak a little more bass onto the occasional tune...) Unless you've got the loot for a topnotch eq unit, you're gonna introduce a lotta weird phase problemos and other gremlins.

[indy mike]

Oh yeah, 96 Tears ain't gonna show up on cd cause it's part of the ABKCO "we got lotsa music people want but it ain't gonna come out cause of legal problems" music empire (Chubby Checker fans shouldn't hold their breath either). G-L-O-R-I-A by the Shadows of Knight can be snagged on the original lp + bonus tracks from our good friends at Sundazed - they also managed to come up with the best sounding masters for Chicago's finest (and don't let anyone revise history and try and get you to believe that Them's version is better - it ain't!!!)...

[jligon]

Thanks for all of the info. Concerning 96 Tears, etc...I don't mind its ommision. I'm interested in this thing for the more obscure tracks so the more that I'm familiar with left off, the better.

As for the EQ suggestion, I appreciate it but I've always been a power button and volume only kind of guy. Flat. Once I start dicking around with settings I go crazy. I used to have a nine band Alpine EQ in my little spider and I mounted it under the glovebox. The thing was so slim that the slightest movement would change the sound drastically. Needless to say, I almost killed myself, as well as dozens of others, countless times trying to get the setting just right when traveling at high speeds with the top down:eek:

Too bad about the "Rhino" sound. I wasn't expecting hi-fi but that clinical sound is something that I have a tough time tolerating.

[Chip Stylus]

I have both Nuggets boxes and the original Sire Vinyl;
it seriously ticked me off that my favorite stereo subwoofer destroying track,
"Let's Talk About Girls" The Chocolate Watchband, is a mere shadow
of it's former self on the Rhino mono-tin sounding boxed set.

I hardly ever listen to the first cd consequently.

Why are the Turtles and the Monkees on the first box.
Lazy *** licensing is all I can fathom.

[indy mike]

Thom, if you wanna hear CWB's amazing Let's Talk About Girls get Sundazed's reissue of their first album - blasts away in stereo like you crave! If (when) I get a burner 1st order of business is to make the discs in the set in my image - stereo where available - you heard Dirty Water by the Standells in stereo yet? - neat-o synch job by Tom "King of the Disco mix" Moulton - true stereo nut and all around fun guy. Couple Rhino cuts stay (You're Gonna Miss Me and Psychotic Reaction), stuff like Louie, Louie gets tossed out and greasy garage like Sir Winston and the Commons' fuzz feast We're Gonna Love jumps in its place - I'm gonna call it "No-Gets: Indy Mike's Stereo Alternative Answer to Rhino's One Horned/Mono-ed Botch Job on Nuggets" (hey, I can revise history like folks on a payroll!). I'll also credit Bob Irwin for supplying tons of pix and not getting a lot of liner time! Just gotta get stereo burns of the Sonics' 2 lp's on Etiquette - any garage gurus got these bad boys available for a dub?

[Vivaldinization]

OK, firstly:

a) Yes, the original goddam 45's were mostly in goddam mono. Guess what? If you run out and try to find these songs on CD, guess what you normally get? STereo or mono?

Oh, come on, guess! So, essentially, this set gives you the mono mixes of stuff you can't normally get in mono. I'm fine with that. I'm *more* than fine with that.

b) I don't think it sounds too bad...in fact, I think the set sounds pretty good. THe upper range is a bit harsh, but not too terribly so.

c) For those who are asking for a mono/stereo mix...have you ever heard the older Rhino Nuggets CDs? The ones that are a bizarre mix of stereo and mono? Listening to those in headphones can often *really* play with your mind, and as the original stereo for those cuts weren't necessarily all that great, it's probably a better decision to just go with mono most of the way through.

-D

[btomarra]

David,

I totally agree. In fact Journey To The Center of the Mind by the Amboy Dukes had some really bad drop-outs on one of those older Nuggets CDs. So, I don't think the sound is too bad either on the box set.

Brian

:)

[indy mike]

Hmmm, I do have all the Rhino individual Nuggets cd's - a lot of better sources have come available since then for many of the tracks - both stereo and mono. As for the songs being mono in the first place - yep, a lot were, but I believe I read somewhere that Rhino might have taken stereo masters and closed them down to mono since the singles mono mixes are trashed or missing - that's not the singles mix, as Steve has noted. A lotta the mono tapes used sound worn/grungy - I don't have the 45's for 99% of this stuff, but my ears tell me the sonics could have been better. The Nuggets LP's from Elektra and Sire used a lot of stereo - seems like about half showed up there, so the original compilers intentions might not have been followed (Lenny Kaye can jump in at any time now...) I'll give on Just Like Me, Psychotic Reaction and Pushin' Too Hard sounding better in mono - Just Like Me still needs a throbbing stereo mix, and the other two have never shown up in stereo and normally are rechanneled. I'm tired of Rhino jacking with the eq, and insisting on mono - hell, most of this stuff is not gonna be reissued for a long time, if ever, and it was a missed opportunity if you ask me. I love the garage stuff better than just about any type of music, so forgive my passion concerning the box - the book is great, but the sound disappoints me quite a bit. So much of it has been reissued carefully with more hi-fi sound in mind - not just remixes or stereo, but leaving the eq alone or subtly tweeking to maximize ooomph...

[Vivaldinization]

But the Rhino set isn't made with fidelity in mind. It's about presenting all of these various 60s castaways as a homogenous unit, and I think Rhino did a fine job. You're not supposed to listen to "Optical Sound" on the Rhino set and have orgasms over the sound quality. The Rhino set was never about compiling the "best availible" stereo sources; if you want a stereo Put The Clock really badly, find the old Rhino nuggets disc or buy the remixed CD.

Also, I can't think of where the mono mixes were trashed...all of that stuff sounds pretty legit.

-D

[jligon]

Originally posted by David Goodwin
But the Rhino set isn't made with fidelity in mind. It's about presenting all of these various 60s castaways as a homogenous unit, and I think Rhino did a fine job. You're not supposed to listen to "Optical Sound" on the Rhino set and have orgasms over the sound quality. The Rhino set was never about compiling the "best availible" stereo sources; if you want a stereo Put The Clock really badly, find the old Rhino nuggets disc or buy the remixed CD.

-D

As I mentioned earlier, I didn't anticipate "audiophile" sound quality. I wouldn't want it, especially if it meant jeopardizing the original sound.
On the other hand, I don't think they're charging us any less for poor remastering, are they? I'd just like to be able to listen to it on my home stereo without the typical Rhino remastering being a horrible distraction. I first heard parts of this box set in the car over the past week. Sounded great. But why should I be limited to listening to it in the car only if I want to enjoy it? If what others here say is true, I'm guessing it probably would be.

[Vivaldinization]

I firmly believe that unless you're actively LOOKING to be dissatisfied when it comes to the Nuggets set, you'll like it just fine. The remastering is fine, the presentation is great, and the music is wonderful.

-D

[Evan L]

As for the stereo vs. mono debate...on one of the earlier "Nuggets" sets, "I See The Light" by the Five Americans is in stereo, and it sounds like the master tape is suffering major tape degradation. At least on the box set it sounds clear clean and crisp. Plenty of good low end and blastability. Me, I love this stuff, and I think it sounds great on the box set, mono or no.

[Bob Lovely]

Originally posted by MatrixMan
As for the stereo vs. mono debate...on one of the earlier "Nuggets" sets, "I See The Light" by the Five Americans is in stereo, and it sounds like the master tape is suffering major tape degradation. At least on the box set it sounds clear clean and crisp. Plenty of good low end and blastability. Me, I love this stuff, and I think it sounds great on the box set, mono or no.

MM.

Clearly, the intent of this box was to master the tracks to sound like Mono 45's where applicable. The problem: I have many of those original 45's and far too many of the those 45's sound better in their original 45 versions versus they way they were mastered for the box set. Far too many of the tracks in the box are excessively bright, sound pinched and lack the low-end energy of the 45's--poor mastering, in other words.

However, I love the concept and the track selection. I just wish the mastering on the set would have been better!

Bob

[guy incognito]

Originally posted by Bob Lovely

However, I love the concept and the track selection. I just wish the mastering on the set would have been better!
Bob

Hmmm....would it be possible for Steve to license a special, limited-edition SACD edition of the set, utilizing Rhino's packaging elements but with his own Breath-O-Life mastering job? ;)

[Bob Lovely]

Originally posted by guy incognito


Hmmm....would it be possible for Steve to license a special, limited-edition SACD edition of the set, utilizing Rhino's packaging elements but with his own Breath-O-Life mastering job? ;)

guy,

A super idea!

Bob

[RDK]

How 'bout if Rhino simply hired Steve as their all-around mastering guy? That would take care of more problems than just the Nuggets box!
:D

[Highway Star]

I too have both boxsets and crave 60s music enough to overlook the faults of these sets. EQ'ing is a must on many tracks. I do prefer my psychedelia in stereo. But I did grow up with these songs in mono, so what the hay. It was fun to find some obscure gems I'd never heard before. One thing is for sure, the fuzz-box was extremely popular in those days!

[Michael]

Originally posted by jligon
Nuggets: Original Artyfacts from the First Psychedelic Era, 1965-1968

I love the content of this box set but does anyone have an opinion on the sound. Typical Rhino?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00000AFWZ/qid=1014428244/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-8254460-2765637

If you don't have most of it elsewhere, pick it up! I'm sure you'll find something worthwhile on there.:)

[Evan L]

My favorite obscure/unheard of track in the set is "Mr. Pharmacist"; Yeah, it's a rip off of "Dr. Robert", but still a great cut!

[fmyou]

"Mr. Pharmacist" was covered rather well during the 80s by the Fall.