This is kind of weird from Classic Records...

[Todd Fredericks]

My questions is why start this "mono" Blue Note series with all this special gear and release the first product with so many tape artifacts. You would think they would choose a killer sonics album to start the series...



The Saga of Miles Davis
Young Man With A Horn

We started with the original session master that includes alternate takes of a few of the tunes recorded in March 1952 (See tape box). The tape is a 15 ips 1/4" full track mono on Scotch 111 tape stock. The tape is in great condition for being 50 years old and represents an important piece of Jazz history and a document of a young Miles trying to "Find a Lick" as Ron Rambach of Music Matters says in sarcastic jest. The six tunes on the 10" record were cut on a vintage Mono cutting system restored for the Classic Blue Note Signature LP series which features an original Westrex 2B cutter head and Western Electric Tube cutting amplifier. The sound is vintage and lush and was not limited as it is obvious that the original pressing used for comparison in mastering was. We discovered some tape distortion in a few places that is more noticeable on the original tape than on the limited production copy that cut the original pressings. Also, original 10" Blue Note LP's from the early 1950's are notoriously noisy which further masks the tape distortions common when early Scotch 111 tape is saturated which it is in some of the passages that Miles blows on. We could have used a cedar noise reduction device but chose for authenticity purposes not to. What you get is a true document of Miles from early 1952 - warts and all.
The pressings were done at Erika Records in Los Angeles on vintage manual presses that feature no groove guard and the classic "deep groove" that Blue Note collectors seek out as most desirable. Classic Records worked very closely with Erika personnel to help improve consistent quality across pressings which is more difficult with manual presses than with the fully automatic presses utilized at RTI (which does not press 10" records.)
The next 10" in the series is Miles Davis Vol. 3 (Mar 2002 release), recorded in 1954 is much more solid in terms of both the performance and the recording - Scotch improved the tape stock substantially by 1954! Both of these records are vastly superior to the original pressings and are must haves for Miles Davis fans.

Todd

[Sckott]

I read this yesterday as well. Me thinks they planned their titles before they actually scrutinized the masters. Not sure if SH does this on purpose, but he's usually tight-lipped about his releases before he starts cutting with Kevin or starts mastering to DAC.

So, their idea about getting some earlier titles from BLUE NOTE was brave. It's true; many of the early Blu'ers are wraught with lots of little problems, but the basic sound and performance IS incredible.

These titles will sound interesting, but won't sound "mindblowing". This is an attempt in sentimental Jazz collecting with reference to duplicating cover, sleeve and disc (as well as sound) to replica perfection (however detailed they are this time). Not sure if anyone owns the Miles Davis BLUE NOTE material on other formats. The RVG CDs are out. Audiophillically speaking, that's the best they'll possibly sound, me thinks - and it ain't audio nirvana. Miles on the other hand, as well as the old-fashoned "round sound" of the mono tapes does send chills down my spine.

Also, according to RVG, he still has the old Scully. I'm puzzled on why they didn't haul that monster out, unless they can't find that the cutting heads can be remanufactured or that no one could repair/upkeep the Scully cutting lathe.

[Todd Fredericks]

I pre-ordered it from Red Trumpet because I'm very curious to see and listen to this product. If I'm not happy, I can always artifially age it a bit (some tea/microwave/etc.) and sell it as an original to a dealer who's out of the loop for $3,000-6,000 (only kidding of course). I think RT is shipping it out next week. I'll post a review when I get some time to listen to it.

Todd

[Sckott]

Please do Todd. I'd love to hear an honest review. I'll wait to plunk down my bread later on ;)

[Steve Hoffman]

Originally posted by Sckott
Me thinks they planned their titles before they actually scrutinized the masters. Not sure if SH does this on purpose, but he's usually tight-lipped about his releases before he starts cutting with Kevin or starts mastering.

YA GOT THAT RIGHT, PAL!!! BURNED TOO MANY TIMES!

. Miles on the other hand, as well as the old-fashoned "round sound" of the mono tapes does send chills down my spine.
.

"Round Sound". I like that description!

[RDK]

I know that Classic Records is striving for authenticity and all that with the deep groove, no groove guard vinyl and the repro labels, etc, but i do hope there will be some way to distinguish these from the originals or else Todd's tongue-in-cheek con job could become a reality. I don't have any Classic Records releases, but do they label their reissues in some way to identify them?
Ray

[PsychFan]

Originally posted by RDK
I don't have any Classic Records releases, but do they label their reissues in some way to identify them?

Usually, at the very least, there's some fine print on the sleeve somewhere that says, "Manufactured by Classic Records," or something similar ... But it can be easy to miss.

You can tell the new Townshend/Lane Rough Mix from the UK original by the LAST record-preservative sticker they mistakenly reproduced on the back of the sleeve (they borrowed Michael Fremer's UK, and reproduced it, LAST sticker and all!!!!). According to Fremer (on Phonogram), Classic is stopping distribution ...

[Humorem]

Originally posted by RDK
... i do hope there will be some way to distinguish these from the originals...

Yes, they make it quite easy.

The first 10" title is thin, bright and harsh, not very "round". Noisy vinyl too.

The original is none of the above.

See, it's easy.:)

[Paul Chang]

Originally posted by Humorem


Yes, they make it quite easy.

The first 10" title is thin, bright and harsh, not very "round". Noisy vinyl too.

The original is none of the above.

See, it's easy.:) Tom,

Is it a coincidence or something else? Classic's vinyls seem to become noisier since they switched to the QUIEX SV. Isn't the new formula supposed to be quieter? :confused:

[Humorem]

Originally posted by Paul Chang
Tom,

Is it a coincidence or something else? Classic's vinyls seem to become noisier since they switched to the QUIEX SV. Isn't the new formula supposed to be quieter? :confused:

This is not Quiex vinyl, Paul. These records are being pressed somewhere where they have 10" presses, not RTI, on whatever vinyl they use.

Why are people falling for this stuff? Is this what audiophiles want? At $30 a pop? Why?

Let's all order ours from Red Trumpet and hope they're good. Hey, it's only $30 if they're not.

My advice to you guys is this: everyone who gets a noisy, bad sounding record should return it to the person who has insulted you with it. Pay by credit card. You will get your money back. Then maybe they will produce better records. Now wouldn't that be lovely?
:)

[Humorem]

Boy, do I ever have a bad attitude!

Like I said, these guys are not your friends. If you fall for this junk, they'll be happy to make more of it for you.

Classic's Rock the House output was a financial disaster. Why? Bad music, bad sound. People noticed and stayed away in droves.

Same story with their Gold CDs. A few good titles, mostly junk, and they were gone before long.

Their aluminum CD jazz reissue series, history. Most people never knew it existed.

Original recordings? They did one. It was bad, regardless of what Stereophile said. They never did another.

Now is this a company with high standards? You tell me.

No wonder I'm cynical. I've had to sift through a lot of chaff to find a few kernals of wheat to sell. It's frustrating when great recordings are ruined. Or mediocre albums make up the bulk of their current offerings and you have to strain your brain to find a reason for someone to like them, knowing that you have to sell something to stay in business.

DCC was like a breath of fresh air when they jumped into the vinyl fray.

It'll be nice when they get back on their feet.
It will add considerably to the number of records I can recommend without reservation.

And I may even be friendlier over the phone.;)

[Paul Chang]

Originally posted by Humorem


This is not Quiex vinyl, Paul. These records are being pressed somewhere where they have 10" presses, not RTI, on whatever vinyl they use.Got it. Just checked the Classic Records web site. The two 10" Miles Davis records have no QUIEX SV logo on their pages. But some Classic titles pressed by RTI using QUIEX SV are indeed noisy. False advertisement?

Why are people falling for this stuff? Is this what audiophiles want? At $30 a pop? Why?I sure will try the original if I can afford it.

Let's all order ours from Red Trumpet and hope they're good. Hey, it's only $30 if they're not.

My advice to you guys is this: everyone who gets a noisy, bad sounding record should return it to the person who has insulted you with it. Pay by credit card. You will get your money back. Then maybe they will produce better records. Now wouldn't that be lovely?
:) Classic Music Direct is the best place to have your revenge. ;)

[Humorem]

Yes, you will make as many friends as I have over the years!

I get called a lot of names but one of them isn't "sucker".

[Todd Fredericks]

I'm buying the album mainly out of curiosity. I read about all the hype they were promoting a month or two ago and want to hear how good or bad they handle some of these titles. I feel a little "suckered" by this recent announcement (the one I posted) about this admission to dodgy sound quality on the master tape. I was thinking of canceling my pre-order after reading this but I'm still interested in giving it a spin. I'll let my own ears determine if I love it, hate it or couldn't care less. At least I'm not paying full retail on it (saved enough to buy a pack of cigarettes). If I think it's not worth keeping then I may "demand" my money back or just flog it on ebay (so I can buy more cigarettes). I'll post my comments about it when I hear it. Right now I don't have an opinion on it's sound because again, I haven't heard it yet...

Todd

P.S. I think Steve spelled it out months ago the truth about Classic Records little secret that they have nothing to do with "Quiex SV" (marketing). It's not "their" special formulation, RTI just changed their vinyl recipe a bit. If the pressings are noisy then that's most likely RTI's QC slipping (which I've been noticing sadly).

[Patrick M]

Originally posted by Humorem
Same story with their Gold CDs. A few good titles, mostly junk, and they were gone before long.

Do you have a strong opinion on Chet Atkins in Hollywood or the Folk Singer DAD?

I know a lot of people were furious over their classical reissues.

[Ronflugelguy]

Humoren, are you saying if I want to hear the vintage MILES, just get the RVG remasters and save alot of money????

[Steve Hoffman]

I think Tom means the ORIGINAL pressings.

[Ronflugelguy]

I think original pressings are out of my budget.:(

[Steve Hoffman]

Yeah, and that goes for the rest of us too...

I've never even seen an original.:(

[Humorem]

I mean get something worth hearing, whatever it is. It ain't going to be made in this instance by Classic. This music exists in other forms, and somewhere out there is one that will be satisfying.

One that isn't satisfying has no value whatsoever, right? It's actually painful to play a record like that, knowing that it's all wrong. I wouldn't be plopping down $30 for that kind of pain. I can put bamboo shoots under my own fingernails and light them. I don't need Classic Records' help.

[Ronflugelguy]

Were those titles released on the Japanese 10 inch Blue Note series???

[Ronflugelguy]

I have one question after this debate about what these 10 inchers will sound like: Will anyone be purchasing them??? I'm definitely going to sit this one out!!!

[Humorem]

Originally posted by Patrick M


Do you have a strong opinion on Chet Atkins in Hollywood or the Folk Singer DAD?

I know a lot of people were furious over their classical reissues.

My good friend Robert Pincus says their gold CD of Chet was superb. Probably was. Puts me to sleep but it can be found I'm sure.

I've never heard a DAD. I'd like to though.

[Patrick M]

Originally posted by Humorem
My good friend Robert Pincus says their gold CD of Chet was superb. Probably was. Puts me to sleep but it can be found I'm sure.

I have the Chet CD, actually -- got it cheap from funkyjunk.com. I like it.

Two more questions for anyone who cares to chime in:

- if you buy a Classic title and don't like it, can you really get a refund on it? Or is this solely at the discretion of the retailer (i.e., does RT or whoever have to "eat it")?

- does Bernie do all the mastering, regardless of format?

[Mike V]

Take Tom's advice and use a credit card. Then they can't hold your money or replacements hostage. I myself will try never to do business with Classic again. It is tempting, but costs way to much for the hit and miss sound quality (note Zeppelin II for instance). To my ears, some are great though (like Lamb Lies Down On Broadway).

I had a problem with each of the following titles, all ordered at the same time (along with a BUNCH of other stuff)

Miles - Kind of Blue (NOISY NOISY!! Quiex my arse. And very bright and harsh sounding too). My Mosaics sound better, at least to my ears.

Zeppelin - Physical Grafitti (Blister on 2nd LP). For $20+ per disc, a pressing blister is an issue (and it does sound).

Sonny Rollins - Our Man In Jazz (pressing looked perfect, but plays like there's sandpaper in the grooves)

Lady In Satin - Another really really noisy one. Ticks and pops everywhere.

DON'T BUY THIS HYPE THAT QUIEX IS QUIETER and this nonsense about more detail, etc. It's all marketing crap to me. I find my '95 (or is it '96) Blue Note reissues and Classics to be a LOT quieter, and certainly had FAR fewer problems with defects back then. But then again, those are issues that RTI should fix.

I sent a letter and called their office (spoke to some guy named Troy) and sent the LPs back. About 6 weeks later I called for the 3rd or so time, and asked that they send me back some replacements. Well, they just sent back the same LPs I returned with no explanation or anything. Still no resolution.

THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO RESPECT FOR THEIR CUSTOMERS!! And they know I spent in excess of $1000 with them over the last 2 years, because it's all been through their website. These are the only records I tried to return. I will burn CDR copies from friends before I drop another dime on their crummy product.