Steely Dan-Gaucho Master Tape Erased Story

[spotlightkid]

I was flipping thru a book on steely dan and found a interesting passage-during the recording of their lp-Gaucho,some new studio tech accidentally erased the final master for the song-The Second Arrangement.The next morning when Fagen and Becker were told this they were very upset and unfortunately for Steely Dan fans they never went back to finish the song.I have heard the demo and it is a great unreleased Steely Dan track.

[PsychFan]

Apparently, this ("The Second Arrangement") was producer Gary Katz's favorite song-in-progress for Gaucho. And the engineer actually erased the 24-track multitracks, not just a master mix or anything.

According to the Steely Dan bio I have, Becker and Fagen did attempt to record it again, but they were never able to recapture the right vibe, so they simply dropped it. A tragic story ...

[Kym]

Originally posted by Jeff Partyka
According to the Steely Dan bio I have, Becker and Fagen did attempt to record it again, but they were never able to recapture the right vibe, so they simply dropped it. A tragic story ...

The thing is, they tried to re-record it with a different line-up of musicians. Weird.

"The Second Arrangement" would have definitely made a great song. (It would have made a great replacement for "Glamour Profession.") I do have copies of it, but it sounds unfinished.

[PsychFan]

Originally posted by Kym in Hawaii
(It would have made a great replacement for "Glamour Profession")

You don't like that song? It's one of my favorites. Great lyrics, I think!

Unfortunately, I've never heard any of the extant demos/rough recordings of "The Second Arrangement." It'd be most intriguing; SD has always been very tightfisted with outtakes, alternate versions, demos, etc. ...

[Ronald]

Wow. Sounds like an interesting tidbit. Is this story in the Citizen Steely Dan box?

How about the story where an LP (Katy Lied or Royal Scam?) was recorded using a dbx expander/compressor and the dbx hardware failed? Any notes about that?

[Kym]

Originally posted by Ronald
Wow. Sounds like an interesting tidbit. Is this story in the Citizen Steely Dan box?

How about the story where an LP (Katy Lied or Royal Scam?) was recorded using a dbx expander/compressor and the dbx hardware failed? Any notes about that?

Brian Sweet's book, Steely Dan: Reelin' in the Years, is where Jeff and I got our "Second Arrangement" info from. The book is a great read and I highly recommend it!

Check it out: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0711982791/qid=1014326917/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-6172736-8031041

And yes, it does talk about the DBX failure for Katy Lied.

[Ronald]

Thanks!! One nice thing of this board is the sharing of information I probably would have never found unless I was made aware of it.

Does that sentence make sense?

[PsychFan]

Originally posted by Ronald
Does that sentence make sense?

Yes it does! And I second the recommendation on the book. It's a very good read with many great anecdotes (and even some good photos) ...

[Humorem]

I agree, it is a great book.

Steve was at one time planning on doing Katy Lied on vinyl, and got hold of a vintage DBX decoder.

When I cleaned out the warehouse I took it with me. It's a studio piece, balanced in and out, but I couldn't see throwing it in the trash.

Don't know what the hell to do with it, like most of the stuff I've accumulated over the years.

[Grant]

I would like to see a book on second engineers who screw up. THAT would make for some fun reading.

[Gary]

Originally posted by Humorem
Steve was at one time planning on doing Katy Lied on vinyl, and got hold of a vintage DBX decoder.

When I cleaned out the warehouse I took it with me. It's a studio piece, balanced in and out, but I couldn't see throwing it in the trash.

Don't know what the hell to do with it, like most of the stuff I've accumulated over the years.

Hmmm, methinks that it would be fun going through YOUR warehouse or basement or whatever!

Any Lynyrd Skynyrd goodies? ;)

[Shoes4Industry]

SH was thinking of doing Katy Lied? Man, I'd love to get a copy of that, but I understand that SD is unwilling to let anyone else issue their stuff...

[PsychFan]

Well, MoFi did a Katy Lied LP. Has anyone heard that? I just saw a copy in a local record shop last night ($60, I believe).

I have a standard original US LP that sounds rather dull. The most recent CD kills it, to my ears.

[Ronald]

There is a story in a recent "Absolute Sound" or "Stereophile" about the work done to fix the dbx problem. If the actual issue needs citing, I can look it up and post it here.

It seems the lastest version of the Steely Dan CeeDees were given DSP to fix the flaws and the author of the paper thought the DSP work was very good. I can't recall if the work was done around the time of the issuance of the Citizen Steely Dan box.

I'll give the CeeDee a listen. I should re-read the paper to determine if there are actual identifiers on the CeeDee packaging to note if the DSP was incorporated.

[Humorem]

Originally posted by Jeff Partyka
Well, MoFi did a Katy Lied LP. Has anyone heard that? I just saw a copy in a local record shop last night ($60, I believe).

I have a standard original US LP that sounds rather dull. The most recent CD kills it, to my ears.

The MOFI LP is bad news, but so is the new CD.

Find yourself half a dozen original CDs. They can all look identical and they will all sound different. One is likely to sound great. I have one that sounded amazing when I played it for Steve and he agreed it was correct.

Play Doctor Wu. Everything should sound in balance on a good copy, not hard and a little bright like the new one.

[christopher]

Originally posted by Grant
I would like to see a book on second engineers who screw up. THAT would make for some fun reading.

like the one who wiped bonzo's drum intro to led zep's "celebration day" from III? i'd heard that's why the synth wow was employed to segue out of "friends".

later, chris

[Matt]

Originally posted by Humorem


The MOFI LP is bad news, but so is the new CD.

Find yourself half a dozen original CDs. They can all look identical and they will all sound different. One is likely to sound great. I have one that sounded amazing when I played it for Steve and he agreed it was correct.

Play Doctor Wu. Everything should sound in balance on a good copy, not hard and a little bright like the new one.

The original CD's, you're referring to editions that have the plain, standard MCA tray card?

I don't have the book anymore, but I remember in Sweet's book, he mentions how the first CD pressings used different tapes from subsequent pressings, and when I say subsequent pressings, I don't mean any of the reissues or remasters. It also said that the first pressings had what was considered to be the correct tapes (which I think were just digital transfers made in the early 80's), and that subsequent ones used tapes meant for Lp pressings (analogue tapes that were also used for the MFSL discs). Do you know which pressing you're referring to, the one they consider to be correct or the latter pressings?

[Steve Hoffman]

The first MCA Steely Dan CD pressings (besides the "Aja" that I did) used Roger's TOTALLY NEUTRAL digital mastering from the correct tapes. Now, some of those tapes could have used some work, but it is a way to hear exactly what is on the master mixes. No other versions sound correct to me now.

BTW, the "Katy Lied" original CD has that usual (for Steely Dan) "hole" in the upper midrange, making everything sound a bit muffled. That's the sound of the real tapes!!

[Humorem]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman

BTW, the "Katy Lied" original CD has that usual (for Steely Dan) "hole" in the upper midrange, making everything sound a bit muffled. That's the sound of the real tapes!!

I love that sound on Katy Lied; it's the sound that fits that music. Probably because we always heard it sound that way, those of us who grew up on the LP anyway.

[Matt]

Muchos gracias, Steve!

Only problem now is figuring out which ones are the first pressings, since they look just like the later pressings.

[Steve Hoffman]

Thomas Q. Port knows, I think. Did the first press say Sanyo on the label hole or...? It's getting hazy...

:confused:

[Humorem]

Originally posted by Matt
Muchos gracias, Steve!

Only problem now is figuring out which ones are the first pressings, since they look just like the later pressings.

When you play it you will know in about 15 seconds, 30 tops.

Trade it back in if it's no good. In the collecting world there is no alternative I'm afraid unless you want to buy the "good" one from some dealer and pay a lot more for it, and no dealer I know of knows about this title but me, and I don't have one to sell you!

[Richard Feirstein]

Almost as bad as wiping the multi-track was the misplacement of the boxes containg the unmixed masters for an Eric Anderson album. Sony Music did a search and found it in unmarked boxes in storage many years later. If you never heard of Mr. Anderson now you know why.:rolleyes:

[JonUrban]

Didn't the first (issued) Steely Dan CDs have different catalog numbers from the follow up releases? I think I remember that the first ones were "full price", then they subsequently re-released them at the "Compact Disc, Compact Price" (or something like that) with a different number. It was around this time that people were talking about the later releases not sounding as good.

I'll have to check my CDs....

:-jon

[Grant]

Originally posted by Humorem


The MOFI LP is bad news, but so is the new CD.

Find yourself half a dozen original CDs. They can all look identical and they will all sound different. One is likely to sound great. I have one that sounded amazing when I played it for Steve and he agreed it was correct.

Play Doctor Wu. Everything should sound in balance on a good copy, not hard and a little bright like the new one.

The sound of a first run of an original pressing may matter. My ABC first run of "Aja" sounds exactly like the latest CD. Same with "Can't Buy A Thrill".