Continuing the 5.1 receiver/preamp discussion

[sgraham]

I'm moving this here in the interest of un-hijacking a thread


Sgraham:
I'm quite sure most recent Sony receivers have pure analog 5.1 inputs because Sony is the creator (w/Philips) of the sacd format, which requires this type of input to allow sacd's to be heard properly.

Same with the dvd-audio backers like Kenwood, Yamaha, Pioneer, Denon, B&K, Arcam, Onkyo, etc (and especially Panasonic/Technics: they are the biggest hardware supporter of dvd-audio).


Logical. Assuming, that is, that the left hand knows what the right hand is doing.


Some clues a receiver probably has a 100% analog 5.1 input: (For entry level needs, I like Panasonic/Technics so.......) On the Panasonic SA-HE100--specified as "dvd-audio ready"--when I selected the 5.1 input I discovered the bass & treble controls were disabled. This was proof to me it was 100% analog because these would only be turned off if they used low-res, digital-based tone circuits. Another clue: On my own receiver, a $350 Technics SA-DA8, it uses "regular" bass & treble controls, i.e. mechanical knobs. These definitely are 100% analog devices! Same with its volume control--it's mechanical too.

I am very much in favor of knobs. It's so handy just to (literally) TURN up the bass (or whatever) instead of searching for the right sequence of buttons to push repeatedly. I'm guessing that the tone controls are defeated in 5.1 mode again. The biggest gotcha, though, with a receiver of this type is that it probably doesn't have a 5.1 line out, needed for integrating with my existing two channel system.

(Please tell me if I'm wrong.)

Always something!


My next receiver--something in the $500-$800 range--will be an Outlaw Audio, a Yamaha or possibly an Arcam.

I came *this* close to buying Outlaw. But I *really* wanted ProLogic II, which their "budget" unit doesn't have, and as I was just getting started with surround I wasn't ready to pop for the $900 unit.

So, once again, what do you all think is the best entry level 5.1 component? For me, it must have:

5.1 "pure analog" input (one or more)
5.1 output,
Dolby ProLogic II decoding, and
Remote control with full front/rear and left/right balance setting ability, preferrably easy and intuitive (dream on).

*Simple* tone controls a definite plus.

[ratskrad]

On my Yamaha RX-V1300 there is no tone control when I use what they call Processor Direct. On 5.1 input that means input to amp by passing any digital processor (DSP). When playing cd's I use the Yamaha'a DAC's as I think they sound better but I still use the Processor Direct mode and there again no DSP is used, and no tone controls. This receiver has pre-outs on all channels. I can set everything from the remote either on screen or on display.

[Jeffrey]

Hi Steve,

Is it gonna be used mostly for HT or audio? If audio, will it be used mostly for 2 channel or 5.1?

-Jeffrey

[Taurus]

sgraham said:

I'm guessing that the tone controls are defeated in 5.1 mode again.

Actually, they're not--an advantage of mechanical (analog) tone controls.

Only when my receiver's "VGCA" (Variable Gain Control Amplifier) mode is engaged are they finally deactivated. This mode also shuts off the receiver's fluorescent display which emits high-frequency EMI which can leak into the audio circuits & supposedly cause audible problems. This is why many hi-res players have a "video off" button--video circuits also emit EMI which can creep into the audio circuits.

Speaking of that left hand/right hand comment: I'm still trying to find out if those new receiver's from Harman/Kardon (http://http://www.harmankardon.com/product_detail.asp?cat=REC&prod=DPR%201001&sType=C) and Panasonic (http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11251&catalogId=11005&itemId=63376&catGroupId=11135&modelNo=SA-XR45&surfModel=SA-XR45) that use fully digital power amps can handle hi-res signals properly. And check out their weight spec! (I looked at that H/K model and the power transformer is only the size of a plum--digital amps are extremely efficient so don't require a large one, or large amp heat sinks. But their sound? I have never heard one).

[T]

[fjhuerta]

There's another solution - Margules Audio is coming with a 5.1 tube preamp!

I'm waiting for it :D

[sgraham]

Originally posted by Jeffrey
Hi Steve,

Is it gonna be used mostly for HT or audio? If audio, will it be used mostly for 2 channel or 5.1?

-Jeffrey

My primary concern is audio. HT is a nice bonus. (TV really is better in surround - until you hit that sensory overload point). The two-channel vs. 5.1 (or at least quad) question is somewhat unresolved. The purist in me would say that the vast majority of my recordings are two-channel, and next to that mono, and so I should be using it primarily for two-channels. But after playing a surround recording two-channels sound a bit flat. I'm tempted to use some sort of matrixed quasi-surround (true confessions!).

On the other hand, I also do most of my listening through headphones these days (late night, neighbors) which means two-channel. (Never heard a headphone simulation of surround sound that worked with a darn, not counting binaural recordings and such).

Right now I have essentially a decent two-channel system with a budget 5.1 receiver and two additional speakers that I can hook it up to/through for playing surround, which is a bit of a pain.

[sgraham]

Originally posted by fjhuerta
There's another solution - Margules Audio is coming with a 5.1 tube preamp!

I'm waiting for it :D

But at what cost?

And... since I doubt it's feasable to produce a pro-logic decoder using tubes exclusively, will they include pro-logic or anything of the sort, or will it be just a simple 5.1 "control center" providing volume control and switching and nothing else?

And will it have a remote?

[StyxCollector]

I have a Marantz SR7000. Very musical and does HT well.

You may want to check out the SR7300 or SR7300ose.

[fjhuerta]

And... since I doubt it's feasable to produce a pro-logic decoder using tubes exclusively, will they include pro-logic or anything of the sort, or will it be just a simple 5.1 "control center" providing volume control and switching and nothing else?


Sorry... changed my mind. I don't know whether he'd like this to be known... yet.

Let me ask him first :)

[soundboy]

Regarding pure analog 5.1 inputs, I just picked up a brand new in-the-box Sherwood 6108 receiver....Dolby Digital, Dolby Pro-Logic II, dts, 5.1 inputs....for $80.00. I e-mailed Sherwood regarding the 5.1 inputs....

I am interested in the Sherwood 6108 receiver. I was wondering if the 6 channel analog inputs (for SACD playback) pass through the internal DACs or is it just straight through analog. Thanks in advance.

Sherwood's response was....

It is a straight through analog input.