Are there any vintage speakers that image well?

[audio]

A while back I posted a thread asking about vintage speakers and someone (Claus??) posted something to the effect that vintage speakers sound great, but they're not very transparent and they don't image well in terms of providing a three dimensional soundstage. What attracts me to vintage speakers is their high efficiency as I wait for my tube amp to be finished. I'm concerned that the 20-25 watts may be a little tough for my current speakers and I'd much rather get something that's real easy to drive, but without spending $4000. Are there ANY vintage speakers that can compete with modern "audiophile" speakers?

[Steve Hoffman]

You threw me when you mentioned "high efficiency". That rules out vintage Advents, AR' 3A's, etc. All you are left with are bass reflex and horn type speakers. One consolation, they go really loud.

[audio]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
You threw me when you mentioned "high efficiency". That rules out vintage Advents, AR' 3A's, etc. All you are left with are bass reflex and horn type speakers. One consolation, they go really loud.


Loud is good, but realism interests me more. One thing I noticed with my initial tests with the tube amp was that, although the sound came to life like I never imagined, bass was a tad lean. I was hoping that if I grabbed some huge vintage speakers that are very easy to drive, everything would be all patched up and goovy. However, I don't want to give up the sense of space, detail, and specific location by going this route. Am I barking up the wrong tree looking to vintage drivers?

[ArneW]

What about a nice pair of Spendor BC-1 (http://vintagesnd.homestead.com/files/Spendor_BC-1.jpg)'s? Their imaging isn't exactly poor, they're great looking and won't throw you back more than $1.000 in mint condition.

Arne

[Jeffrey]

Hi,

Efficient vintage speakers w/ very good imaging: Quad ESL 57's. :)

-Jeffrey

[ArneW]

Hi Jeffrey,

are you sure the Quads are really efficient enough to be successfully driven by a 20W integrated tube amp? Plus, prix mentioned earlier in this thread that he is not satisfied with the lean bass he's getting from his system - and that's something an all-electrostatic speaker will not likely improve upon.

Arne

[chip-hp]

Originally posted by Jeffrey
Hi,

Efficient vintage speakers w/ very good imaging: Quad ESL 57's. :)

-Jeffrey

Morning Jeffrey,

Like these (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3034243000&category=3284) ... when I first saw the picture, I thought the Seller got it mixed up with a picture of the headboards for his bed ... the high Bidder wouldn't be some guy who lives in South Texas?

[Jeffrey]

Originally posted by ArneW
Hi Jeffrey,

are you sure the Quads are really efficient enough to be successfully driven by a 20W integrated tube amp? Plus, prix mentioned earlier in this thread that he is not satisfied with the lean bass he's getting from his system - and that's something an all-electrostatic speaker will not likely improve upon.

Arne

Hi Arne,

The Quads are efficient speakers and match up well w/ vintage tube gear. No question, the bass will be lean. The thing is, Prix is NOT gonna get everything he asks for (has he ever? :laugh: ) for the kinda money he seems willing to spend. The Quads met many of his desires:

Vintage Speakers
Transparent
Great Imaging
Realistic Mid-band
Compete w/ modern audiophile speakers

BTW, thanks for the help the other week on my Jazz LP thread! :)

-Jeffrey

[Jeffrey]

Originally posted by chip-hp


Morning Jeffrey,

Like these (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3034243000&category=3284) ... when I first saw the picture, I thought the Seller got it mixed up with a picture of the headboards for his bed ... the high Bidder wouldn't be some guy who lives in South Texas?

Hi Chip,

Yesiree, that be them! :agree: They'll be $2k+ before it's over.

Hey, i'm offended by that Jeffrey Dewey Harris comment............. my name is Jeffrey Billy Bob Jones. :D

-Jeffrey

[Steve Hoffman]

I wouldn't match Quads with a 20 tube watt amp. A recipe for explosion.

[Ronflugelguy]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
I wouldn't match Quads with a 20 tube watt amp. A recipe for explosion.

Steve, please elaborate.:)

[Richard Feirstein]

My Dahlquist DQ10's image superbly and was one of the first "time aligned" systems. Not small, not super efficient, but great bass and high end. Unlike the best modern systems, the sonics go south if you push them too loud. I'd recommend at least 40 watts, I currently use 120.

Richard.

[Jeffrey]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
I wouldn't match Quads with a 20 tube watt amp. A recipe for explosion.

Hi SH,

How many tube watts is a Fischer 500B? That's what this reviewer matched the Quads with:

http://www.audiophilia.com/hardware/quads.htm

This person thinks 25 tube watts is best:

http://audio-nirvana.fortunecity.net/pag_eng/ugly.htm

What vintage amp/receiver is Prix pairing?

-Jeffrey

[Steve Hoffman]

Haven't these people ever heard of DYNAMIC DRIVE?

This one guy has a Marantz 9 listed (a $9,000) 80 watt per side pair of monoblocks. They would work.

[Jeffrey]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
This one guy has a Marantz 9 listed (a $9,000) 80 watt per side pair of monoblocks. They would work.

Hi SH,

I agree that the Marantz 9 is a real stretch BUT he does say that 25 tube watts is best. Howsabout another source?.....

How many tube watts is a Radford MA 15? That's what Ken Kessler recommended as the best amplifier match when Hi-Fi News (January 2000) listed the Quad ESL 57 as the greatest Hi-Fi product of all time.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hfnrr/

-Jeffrey

[Steve Hoffman]

Well, I don't agree with these guys at all. What VOLUME were they playing these things at? What type of music?

Quads eat power; they need power to sound their best.

I've run a set of the BIG Maggies with two Mac 30's and it sounded great---At low volume playing a string quartet; totally lifelike and awesome. But try the Doors and it just goes to heck.

Usually people who are into SET's like Quads for their chamber music records. Lifelike, but......

[Gary]

I think you need some bass reflex speakers to get lots of low end.

Tangent RS2 or RS4's used to sound great. They are very, very hard to find, though...

[Jeffrey]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Well, I don't agree with these guys at all. What VOLUME were they playing these things at? What type of music?



Hi SH,

Well, only they could answer those questions. :)

Nevertheless, you make a great point.......... Prix's musical taste probably require more dynamic drive. :D

-Jeffrey

[Gary]

I think Prix tends to like Rock and Roll... right, Prix?

[Claus]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Well, I don't agree with these guys at all. What VOLUME were they playing these things at? What type of music?

Quads eat power; they need power to sound their best.

I've run a set of the BIG Maggies with two Mac 30's and it sounded great---At low volume playing a string quartet; totally lifelike and awesome. But try the Doors and it just goes to heck.


I still... remember when I started with High End, I heard the biggest Apogees at my dealer... big Krell blocks for driving the Apogees. At that time the only amplifier who could drive the Apogee.

Same with my electrostatic speakers by Audio Exklusiv... the clipping and low impedance wasn't good for the Krell's. But the soundstage and clarity was awesome... but the dynamic range and bass power was not top level.

[audio]

Originally posted by Gary
I think Prix tends to like Rock and Roll... right, Prix?



You got it. I dabble in jazz, classical, reggae, funk, etc, but mostly rock. In response to a few of the other replies in this thread, the amp is a Harman Kardon A500 rated at 25 wpc. I like the idea of Spendor BC1s, but aren't those demanding of a lot of power to drive? I agree with what Steve says about the type of music these people are listening to. Whenever I've read a review of a low wattage tube amp or a pair of electrostatic speakers, it's always been "Vivaldi in Paris" or "Charlie Parker's 5th Symphony" that they were listening to; never Led Zeppelin or Motorhead.

[Finalnote]

Originally posted by ArneW
Hi Jeffrey,

are you sure the Quads are really efficient enough to be successfully driven by a 20W integrated tube amp? Plus, prix mentioned earlier in this thread that he is not satisfied with the lean bass he's getting from his system - and that's something an all-electrostatic speaker will not likely improve upon.

Arne

The quads do not require alot of power!!!!! they and all like speakers (planers/electros) need HIGH CURRENT amplifaction.... How much..... 20 watts of CLASS A tube amp power will drive them to 90 db with no problem. The quads are not a low frequency star (never were designed to it) but they are about the best at MIDRANGE.

I would suggest searching SHELDON STOKES on google for a lot of info on quads and mods.

I know this is hard to believe but for every watt you have from a class a tube amp you will need 4 -6 times as much from a transistor amp to equal the load driving ability.

I could be wrong......NOT

[Dave]

prix, just as a side note here...you might want to try to get a good British speaker whose mid-range is to die for and being efficiant in the bass dept.

I'm not sure if I was "Joe Fluke" but I was able to get my $3,000 speakers used out of a local rag called The Buy & Sell for $250. Just a thought.

[Ron Stone]

If you want imaging and bass, my suggestion is to go for a couple monitors and a subwoofer.

It can be very hard to position full-range speakers for both accurate bass and maximum imaging, even in a dedicated listening room uncompromised by coffee tables and sliding glass doors. And you can add the subwoofer later (it doesn't have to be from the same manufacturer), using all your current available funds on the monitors.

And while some members are recommending electrostatic/planar speakers, keep in mind that they may not be the best choice for homes with pets and small children.

[RussKon]

perhaps the best vintage speaker (and also a current model) is the klipschorn by klipsch.....

will sound simply fantastic with a low powered tube amp.... i believe their efficiency is 104 db @ 1 watt @ 1meter....

these speakers have been in production since 1948.... they retail price is over $8000 per pair, but you can usually find them for $3000 to $4000 on the used market... (be sure to have a truck to go get them!!!)

for best performance they do need to be put into corners of your room and they are very large!!!!

you can check them out at

www.klipsch.com

in fact, just about all of the heritage series by klipsch would meet your criteria!