Analog

[patricku]

Is there an Analog renaissance ?
For me it look like-there is-

[Grant]

Judging by how hard it's getting to find things on vinyl, yeah, i'd say there is for music.

I'd say it's part of a growing digital backlash.

The audiophile vinyl-lovers would say that it is because the sound is better. I think this could be true if the corresponding CD sounds bad or uses bad source tapes.

Some, like me go to vinyl only because there is a world of old music not represented on CD, and probably never will be.

I just put the 1975 Ace "Five A Side" LP to CD-R today. The sound of the hit single "How Long" sounds much less compressed and has depth compared to all the CDs the song appears on. Obviously, the LP was mastered from a very low generation tape.

[PsychFan]

Originally posted by Grant
I think this could be true if the corresponding CD sounds bad or uses bad source tapes.

Grant is absolutely right. Many times, the LP of a given album sounds better than the CD not because the LP format is necessarily superior to CD ... but because the CD represents a poor mastering job, or the tape has degraded.

The opposite can also be true. The most recent CD of Crosby, Stills & Nash absolutely slays any Atlantic LP I've heard. Only with the Classic Records reissue has this album ever sounded good on vinyl ...

[Beagle]

The great thing is you can go out and buy a used copy of an original LP for a dollar, and if you have a decent analog setup, it will kill the current CD issue sonically 8 times out of 10. Not to mention that probably 50% of my collection is not out on CD. With most CD's I get bored after about a minute and skip to the next rack and so on. I notice that with SACD, I tend to stick with it like I would with an LP.

On the topic, 6 years ago, my local music store had about one bin of new vinyl. Currently, they have seven bins, and they are turning over a lot of product. So obviously the demand is there. When companies like Sony are re-releasing old titles on vinyl, you know there's a market.

[Sckott]

That's the "Anchor" records issue, right Grant? I think ABC did distro for that label.... That does have a great sound.


Yes, it's a analog awareness thing, heightened because more and more people are listening to music the old fashored way, and many DO think we've lost the forest through the trees of digital.

Vinyl is a whole lot of fun too. Even still.

[patricku]

More and more titles on vinyl...and more record players & systems...
Vinyl just,most of the time,sound better...SACD is the great hope,but with an output smaller than vinyl,at the moment...and this huge park of existing black records....

[Grant]

You know guys, I gotta say this, of all the criticizing I do of the vinyl die-hards, I do, in fact, listen to a lot of vinyl. It's just transfered to CD-R, so I can listen to it cleaned up and have it at my convenience. I do tend to listen to my transfers more than commercial CDs. BUT, they ARE cleaned up. I still abhor surface noise and clicks. I even duplicate the gaps between songs, and put a four-five second one between the "sides".

[Joe Koz]

Here we sit and burn CD-R's from our LP's,
and they sound better than what the labels put out. Pretty sad!

[Chip Stylus]

Until I started inking the skinny edges of my cd's, I thought that the vinyl always beat the cd.

There were exceptions: Mary Hopkin on Apple - Poscard was the album. Never had an import of this thing, and the 2 domestic pressings I had neither had any top end - they were all muffled. The cd is pretty well done overall and startles pretty much anyone I play it for.

It was always nice to find compilations on lp or cd of singles, minus the 45-crammed groove crackle. Now that I think of it, I have some pretty squashed music on the last 3 minutes of every lp I own that's more than 30 minutes long (2 sides combined).

Analog mastering just got better in the last couple of years - with some exceptions - I bought a new Luna lp ($23 import) that was cut off center 2 years ago. That's enough to tick you off, but it is the exception and not the rule.

I think I see more severely mishandled cd's in the used bins than lp's in same. Lp's aren't as portable, so folks screw them up slightly less.

One real advantage for me of that "digital is better" hype was that for the last 8-9 years, yard sales have been a steady stream of really terrific vinyl.

Betcha that if the cd had not taken over, Sundazed would have never even considered mono Dylan lp's.

[Uncle Al]

Uncle Al chimes in with his ambigous opinion:

I grew up with vinyl, and love the format. When digital audio became a feasible home format - I was the first on my block to invest. The increased dynamic range and the lack of "groove noise" was an immediate improvement. The lack of knowledge in the technology (mastering) was a setback. Jeez - some of those early CD's - even the "all digital" ones, sounded like crap.

Recently - I have been revisting my vinyl. I have decided that neither format is perfect. Both have faults that are NOT duplicated by the other. The quiet background of digital is offset by the smoothness (or lack of "jitter") of an analog format. Vinyl (no matter how well preserved) cannot duplicate the longevity of a CD. The increased dynamic range of digital has been negated by over-use of compresssion to facilitate radio play (reference the most recent , or any "digital era" Aerosmith), however - most vinyl never utilized the dynamic range capacity for the very same reasons.

I remember when audiophile lab measurements PROVED digital audio's superiorirty over analog. Since then we have learned those lab measurements DID NOT address the types of distortion that digital audio INTRODUCED (and were not measured) by those evaluations. It is of no consequence that current testing PROVES that SACD, or DVD-A, or WHATEVER is SUPERIOR to any existing format - EXPERIENCE will soon show us the faults of the format. Even if it doesn't, and we discover the PERFECT audio format, popular music producers will still limit it's potential so that it sounds LOUDER in your car.

Uncle Al's bottom line: If it sounds good, It sounds good. Don't be concerned of the source. And if the source is a surprise - let us all know, maybe we all missed the obvious.

[jroyen]

Vinyl is a more organic, naturally occurring process. A record is palpable; I can hold it in my hands, feel its grooves. Etching grooves into vinyl is very close to what we admire in nature, in how rivers and streams are created. Digital is further removed from these processes. Even the basic tools needed for the creation of a rudimentary record is within our solitary reach, far more than a collective digital process.

It is easier to hold something close that we ourselves resemble. Done poorly, digital can resemble an abrasive synthetic fiber against our skin, while good analog can hold the comfortability of a freshly darned cotton sock. An artificial heart vs. a transplant. Digital is more removed from our every day lives than is analog.

Vinyl can even purely exist in the analog realm and remain perfectly content. We hear in analog. Digital still must pass over into a realm of our understanding. Its main problem still arises during the conversion to analog.

I love the promise that digital music holds. There is still so much progress to be made in leaps and bounds, while realistically, vinyl suffers a much slower evolution. Still, it is still our own understanding of us and the basic tenets of humanity that is lacking.

It can be technically argued that the digital aspect of audio reproduction has been perfected over the last twenty years. Nevertheless, unless something fundamental changes within the human species, no matter what you've heard to the contrary, analog will remain with us, indefinitely.

Josh

[Grant]

Yeah, what Al said.:cool:

[patricku]

Very well said.well

[BradOlson]

Some CD reissues do sound better than the original LP's of certain titles, other titles, the LP sounds better than the CD and some titles, the CD and LP are very similar in sound quality. I was able to dump the LP issue of Juice Newton's "Juice" as I found that the CD sounds very close to the LP thanks to Steve Hoffman. My LP of Waylon's Dreaming My Dreams was so noisy due to the condition on 1 side that no amount of cleaning could save the LP from sounding acceptable to me for the format so I dumped the LP, plus I love the DCC CD anyway. If it sounds good, it sounds good is right on the money. All formats have their faults and nothing is and will ever be perfect.

[Uncle Al]

Well, Bradley - Steve makes a concerted effort to ensure that digital audio sounds "analog" - if you get my drift (after all, we all listen in analog). Comparing his work with SCP (standard commercial product) is not representative of modern digital audio.

I always felt that many (if not most) PROFESSIONAL mastering engineers know what sounds good, but they are under pressure by artists, producers and record companies to "create" an artificial sonic landscape that may not have been present on the original masters. Most of us here are already enthalled (sp?) by the music we listen to/post about/comment on, and we would like it sound as natural as possible.

My original point was not to be overly concerned about the FORMAT of the music - but how it moves you. Every once in awhile - we may be SURPRISED that a particular format presents the music in a superior fashion. I recently saw a short film on cable concerning a audiophile that felt 78's represented the BEST in analog sound. I know you claim NOT to an audiophile Bradley, but it isn't the EQUIPMENT (or your wallet) that makes you one, it is your quest for the best available reproduction. If someone convinces me that the standard 8-track of "Waylon's Greatest Hits" is superior to any other release, you may find me looking for an old player at a flea market.

And you and I may end up in a bidding war on that old player - LMAO!!!

[BradOlson]

Thanks for actually stating I'm an audiophile, Al. Now I can honestly claim I am an audiophile. An excellent CD for a budget price if you come across this is the Curb "Best of Debby Boone" CD from 1986, remastered on CD in 1990. Even if "You Light Up My Life" may be a house cleaner to some people although it is a really inspirational song to me, there are other wonderful songs on the CD that make it worth the purchase.

[Grant]

House cleaner!! I like that!:D

[BradOlson]

A house cleaner (I meant a song that may end up clearing your house guests away) can be a good thing so that you can hear your favorite song without the house guests whining that a song is too sappy or whatever.

[Grant]

Uh, yeah, I knew what you meant.