Beach Boys "Spirit of America" odd sounding CD

[JohnnyK]

Last night I played "Sirit of America" for the first time and I was amazed at how the sound quality varied from track to track. Some tracks were very clean and open, others sounded very compressed and mushed together. This description applies to the mono and the stereo tracks. For example, "Graduation Day" (mono) is very open sounding. The Beach Boys sound like they are standing in the room with you, similar in quality to the Buddy Holley disc. On the other hand "Do you Wanna Dance" (mono) sounds small and very compressed. The band sounds like it is in another room.

Has anybody else had this experience? Steve, any thoughts?

[PsychFan]

I think, because this album is a compilation, variance in sound quality is inevitable.

I've found the same as you, and I think it comes down to how those songs and albums were recorded.

"Do You Wanna Dance" is from the Today! album, which always sounded mushy and compressed in general. Do you have the same impression of "Please Let Me Wonder" and "Good to My Baby" on the SofA gold CD? How about "Dance Dance Dance"? Those are from Today! too.

Just my thought on the subject.

[JohnnyK]

Originally posted by Jeff Partyka


"Do You Wanna Dance" is from the Today! album, which always sounded mushy and compressed in general. Do you have the same impression of "Please Let Me Wonder" and "Good to My Baby" on the SIA gold CD? How about "Dance Dance Dance"? Those are from Today! too.

Just my thought on the subject.

Please Let Me Wonder and Good To My Baby sound very good, much much better than Do You Wanna Dance. I love the sound of the fingers sliding on the guitar fret board on Good To My Baby. The complex vocal and instrumental arrangements of these songs are amazing especially when one considers that Brian was only in his twenties.

The Today album was a real turnning point for thr Beach Boys. The mature subject matter of the songs reflected the fact that the Beach Boys were getting older and their life experiences were becoming more mature.

[PsychFan]

I agree with your thoughts on the wonderful Today! album. One of my all-time faves.

I'm planning to give a listen to my DCC SofA CD tonight to see if my "Do You Wanna Dance" impression matches yours ... it's been a while since I've played it. (I've been listening a lot lately to the original Capitol Today! LP I picked up recently ... "Do You Wanna ..." sounds mighty fine on that.)

[Dan]

The difference you hear is probably different studios, sessions, even year of recording.

[JohnnyK]

Originally posted by Jeff Partyka

(I've been listening a lot lately to the original Capitol Today! LP I picked up recently ... "Do You Wanna ..." sounds mighty fine on that.)

I still have my "Today" LP that I purchased in the early '60's. My turntable is not hooked up to my receiver (no phono input) so I can't listen to it (bummer). I guess I should buy a phono preamp.

[BradOlson]

You can use the AUX to plug in your turntable but the volume will be soft no matter how loud you turn up the vokume but it can be a good thing as well so that your neighbors will not complain about the volume being too loud. I use the AUX for my turntable and am working to get a minidisc recorder (minidisc recorders do have amps built in so you can hook up a turntable to the minidisc recorder and hook up the minidisc recorder to the AUX and turn up the volume on your vinyl as loud as you want it to be).

[dbryant]

I always thought maybe the level was low at the beginning of that song to make the "wall of sound" at the end sound bigger. And since it was originally the first song on the album, they didn't have to match it to the level of a preceding track. Was that instrumental track, including tympani, recorded all together in one pass as usual? If they overdubbed something, that could be the culprit, too.

[njwiv]

Originally posted by cbsolson
I use the AUX for my turntable and am working to get a minidisc recorder (minidisc recorders do have amps built in so you can hook up a turntable to the minidisc recorder and hook up the minidisc recorder to the AUX and turn up the volume on your vinyl as loud as you want it to be).

Bradley,

I have an MD recorder and really enjoy it. I make all my single artist compilations on MD, which allows me to re-record when I find a new B-side, etc. that I want to add in the correct chronology. Good luck!

Jay

[Steve Hoffman]

Originally posted by dbryant
I always thought maybe the level was low at the beginning of that song to make the "wall of sound" at the end sound bigger. And since it was originally the first song on the album, they didn't have to match it to the level of a preceding track. Was that instrumental track, including tympani, recorded all together in one pass as usual? If they overdubbed something, that could be the culprit, too.

Wise words, and welcome!

That is exactly right. And the instrumental track was probably recorded in one pass, on a three-track, bounced to one track of the second three-track, vocals added twice, and so on.

Basically, when Brian Wilson took over, the sound got a bit funky. Too much Murk and Goosh, even for me. But, as I always like to remind myself (and you), ya can't change history.

[BradOlson]

Originally posted by njwiv


Bradley,

I have an MD recorder and really enjoy it. I make all my single artist compilations on MD, which allows me to re-record when I find a new B-side, etc. that I want to add in the correct chronology. Good luck!

Jay

My employer uses MD for their DJ shows and I will definitely use it for my personal compilations as well as the amp for my turntable. It can be used like DAT where you can play the MD copy and record it to your computer and then do the digital remastering from the sound file you put on your computer from the MD.

[JohnnyK]

Originally posted by cbsolson
I use the AUX for my turntable and am working to get a minidisc recorder (minidisc recorders do have amps built in so you can hook up a turntable to the minidisc recorder and hook up the minidisc recorder to the AUX and turn up the volume on your vinyl as loud as you want it to be).

WOW! What a great idea! Thanks. I have a MD player/recorder and I'll give it a try.

[Chip Stylus]

Doesn't the minidisc lossy recording format drive you audiophiles up the wall?
I never owned a recorder, but the few times I listened at Tower on their
Sony MD format samplers, it seemed claustrophobic sounding to me,
as if the decay of all the notes were truncated abruptly.

Perhaps a dub from vinyl would have sufficient pre-dithering
to hold up to the MD copy scheme . . .

I had a buddy at work offer to sell me his MD deck on the cheap
and I didn't know what to use it for. With a 20gb hd and a cd-burner
I figured I had the problem licked. Did I blow it when I didn't buy it???

[BradOlson]

Originally posted by JohnnyK


WOW! What a great idea! Thanks. I have a MD player/recorder and I'll give it a try.

Have the MD recorder/player on and an MD in the player on pause and select it at A/D mode. You will be surprised how a MD recorder/player can actually be used as an amp for your turntable.

[njwiv]

Originally posted by thomoz
Doesn't the minidisc lossy recording format drive you audiophiles up the wall?
I never owned a recorder, but the few times I listened at Tower on their
Sony MD format samplers, it seemed claustrophobic sounding to me,
as if the decay of all the notes were truncated abruptly.

I must admit that I'm not the audiophile that most here are. MiniDisc reproduces CD or record quite well to my ears. As with most music, the medium appears secondary to the quality of the mastering. Moreover, I primarily listen to my MDs at work and in the car, since I'm too anal retentive about my CDs to let them leave the house. Not exactly controlled listening environments for A/B'ing stuff. They're great for the car -- compact, non-degrading, highly resistant to skipping. Plus, I'm always revising my compilations (e.g., U2 recently went from 12 MDs to 15 MDs), so they're very practical for me.

[BradOlson]

Jay is right about minidisc. I'm not the audiophile either and you can always revise your compilations.

[Joe Koz]

I love my mini disc. You can record in mono mode and it doubles your recording time. You can take a 80 min. mini disc and have 160 minutes of great music. I have my mono Beatles, Stones, Searches, Kinks, etc. on mini disc. I almost have the intire Zombies Heaven Box on one mini disc. You gotta love it.

[Dave B]

As this thread has turned into a discussion of the minidisc format I'd like to ask why this format is not more popular. I have had a portable recorder, a home recorder and at one time a car deck in both of my cars. This is without a doubt the easiest and most flexible recording media ever invented. Its small, holds 74 to 80 minutes of music and more on newer models. The ability to add, delete, move or combine tracks after recording is incredibly useful. So why doesn't every kid in America have one? Alright, I admit the sound quality isn't audiophile quality but that can hardly be the problem, neither are cassettes or 8 tracks. So what happened? Bad marketing, few pre-recorded titles, one too many formats? What do you think?

[Chip Stylus]

I have the 24 bit transfer of Beach Boys Today and "Do You Want To Dance" sounds punchier there, more dynamic, that I've heard anywhere (I do not have the DCC Spirit Of America disc and have not heard it for comparison).

You can hear the whoosh.

I suspect that some more intelligent than average - but by no means purist - manipulation, perhaps dynamic range enhancement or judicious eq - has taken place. AND the new BB doubles are not No-Noised.

They do not sound particularly tubey, but you can dance to them.

- - - - -

I just re-listened to that 24-bit disc and the drums just pop out of the mix. AND except for some EQ it sounds very un-tampered with.

[Paul Chang]

Originally posted by cbsolson
You can use the AUX to plug in your turntable but the volume will be soft no matter how loud you turn up the vokume but it can be a good thing as well so that your neighbors will not complain about the volume being too loud. I use the AUX for my turntable and am working to get a minidisc recorder (minidisc recorders do have amps built in so you can hook up a turntable to the minidisc recorder and hook up the minidisc recorder to the AUX and turn up the volume on your vinyl as loud as you want it to be). Don't you need a phono preamp for RIAA curve equalization? How are you going to get the right frequency response by feeding a turntable's output to the AUX input of a receiver unless it has a built-in equalizer? I don't think The Beach Boys were so vintage to have made pre-RIAA standardized records. Am I missing something here? :confused:

[lukpac]

Originally posted by Dan
The difference you hear is probably different studios, sessions, even year of recording.

Well, remember, other than the very early stuff (and the later stuff), most everything was done at Western with Chuck Britz engineering. An odd tracking session might have been done elsewhere, and some vocals were cut at Columbia, but the majority of stuff was cut at Western.

As far as phono stages go, if your turntable doesn't have a built-in pre-amp (which I suspect Bradley's does), you really need a phono input on your amp/receiver. While the level needs to be boosted significantly, it's also necessary to compensate for the RIAA EQ curve. Without that you get *no* bass when you play things back...

[BradOlson]

For the RIAA curve, a preamp is necessary but if you don't have access to a preamp, the AUX input is necessary. Try connecting it to a minidisc player and although that may not provide the RIAA EQ curve, it is better than nothing as you do get bass. When I turn up the volume on my turntable to the MAX, it is still at the right volume to my ears.

[BradOlson]

Originally posted by Dave B
As this thread has turned into a discussion of the minidisc format I'd like to ask why this format is not more popular. I have had a portable recorder, a home recorder and at one time a car deck in both of my cars. This is without a doubt the easiest and most flexible recording media ever invented. Its small, holds 74 to 80 minutes of music and more on newer models. The ability to add, delete, move or combine tracks after recording is incredibly useful. So why doesn't every kid in America have one? Alright, I admit the sound quality isn't audiophile quality but that can hardly be the problem, neither are cassettes or 8 tracks. So what happened? Bad marketing, few pre-recorded titles, one too many formats? What do you think?

I think the 3 things you mentioned contribute to the fact that MD isn't more popular. When I get my MD recorder, I will transfer my cassettes that I don't have on CD onto MD to start with and will not record songs that I already have on CD.

[Paul Chang]

Originally posted by Dave B
As this thread has turned into a discussion of the minidisc format I'd like to ask why this format is not more popular.

Alright, I admit the sound quality isn't audiophile quality but that can hardly be the problem, neither are cassettes or 8 tracks. So what happened? Bad marketing, few pre-recorded titles, one too many formats? What do you think? Yes, there are too many formats but I don't think it's the deciding factor. To replace the poor sounding cassette the MD's price tag is too high for the mass market to try it like a new toy. Lack of sizeable early adaption translated into few prerecorded titles and selections of players for the consumers to choose from.

Sony's dominations in the consumer electronics and the music markets can hurt itself at times. Its competitors usually play the waiting game and they only jump in when a new format becomes a surefire money maker. Sometimes they just want to have their own formats, e.g. VHS, DVD. Even Philips, Sony's partner in the CD format, had a its own agenda on pushing the DCC (the format), which is backward compatible to the cassette (another Philips invention).

My nagging questions for Sony would be: why did you put out the MD format, what was your business objective, and how successful did you want it to be w.r.t. the CD?

As far as the replacement for the cassette as a recordable medium, I think we've got a winner - the CD-R. :)

[lukpac]

I must say MD is *very* cool for a portable music medium, along the lines of MP3 players. The players (which record as well) are *very* tiny, they get great battery life (probably around 40 hours or so on a single AA), and compared to flash media, storage is pretty cheap. And they are oh so cool as far as features. Want to move a track on a disk? No problem. Want to add a track? No problem. Want to erase a track (or an entire disk)? No problem.

Oh, and they have at *least* 45 seconds of skip protection (the disk actually spins down for that period)...