Here is a depressing article for you.

[Angel]

As Joseph Taylor stated when he posted this on the Phonogram list:

"This is just dispiriting":

http://www.denverpost.com/cda/article/detail/0,1040,78%257E374493%257E36%257E%257E,00 .html

[Dave]

Angel,

It is really a sad thing and thank you ever so much.

I've been telling people this for years now and all I've ever seemed to get back was "Yeah right!" "You don't even know what you're talking about".

Perhaps now my friends will sit up and listen.:D

[Matt]

George Orwell was right...

[Sckott]

Yep. George Orwell was perfectly right. Puke.

[Grant]

In Japan they have already manufactured a pop star via computer.:(

[KLM]

Alas, as much as I love technology and the positive things it has given us, it can make some delicate art forms and their creators obsolete over time. How many people do you know that are truly gifted in the art of carpentry or masonry when you can go to Home Depot. Why pay someone to spend days working from hand when a computer controlled assembly line can whip it out in 20 minutes. This too may be the future of the record producer/ engineer who really understands how to make/capture a great musical performance.

[Steve Hoffman]

Geez, Angel. Totally depressing.

Even outside the recording studio, groups on stage can get away with murder and no one seems to care, as long as it is loud enough.

Funny how things change though. In my day, if you didn't play an instrument, unless you were the lead singer in a band, you would be laughed off the stage. These days it is totally cool to look like a goofball on stage with dancing moves, lip syncing to a canned track.

In the old days my bunch used to think that Mike Love of The Beach Boys looked like a dork just for just HOLDING the microphone on stage while singing. All the cool groups never used a hand held mic, they just grabbed the stand (like Mick Jagger). Now, the mics are attached to your head. People in my crowd think that is so bogus looking.

Ah well, things change. What I think looks and sounds like *****, others go crazy over. It's not the end of the world, but it is depressing.

:(

[Rspaight]

I'm "dispirited" by reading any article where Bon Jovi comes out looking like the Heroes of Authentic Music.

Nevetheless, this is as much a generational thing as an aesthetic one. As the article pointed out, the generation that grew up with CD has that as their baseline -- for them, that's what music is supposed to sound like. The pop stuff these days hardly lends itself to live performance, and when it is performed live it's usually heavily processed, so what are the kids gonna use as a reference to know better?

It's like movie effects. You can do marvelous things with CGI, but it's always going to look like CGI. Practical effects are harder and often less "perfect," but ironically look more "real." Overprocessed pop music sounds "perfect," but definitely not "real."

There will always be real music performed by real people out there -- it will just probably not be Top 40. Or perhaps it will be -- these things go in cycles, and maybe in a few years the kids will get sick of the "cyber cool" marketing hype and get into old-fashioned handmade music.

Stranger things have happened -- Music From Big Pink?

Ryan

[RetroSmith]

Hey, guys, while I know what you guys are trying to say, this is really no big deal.

Todays approach to "fixing it digitally" is really no different than any other time in the post tape history of recording.

When tape came in, it was REVELATION that mistakes could now be fixed by simply making a tape copy of the master, and splicing in a good portion. No longer did the artist have to sing a complete take end to end until it was perfect. A little flat? no problem, put a couple of turns of masking tape on the capstan to speed up the tape slightly.

When Multitrack came in it was even better....now individual tracks could be isolated and re-done......no need to have the whole band come back in because the bass player missed a few notes.

The singer really isnt that good? (read Frankie Avalon and Fabian)...no problem.....just doubletrack the vocals!! Makes him sound 1000% better.

My point is that engineers have been "cheating" since 1950 or so!! I'm sure to 1950's sound purists, just adding ECHO was cheating because it altered what was really there.

So, really, todays computer technology is just our own own generations version of "we'll fix it in the mix".

A great singer is still a great singer!!

[christopher]

how can someone mention milestones in music recording in the 80's and forget MIDI (musical instrument digital interface)?

at the time it was hailed as the biggest recording breakthrough since overdubbing and remains a prized tool in the studio to this day.

talk about forgetting your digital roots!

later, chris

[Grant]

Then came drum machines. Remember Wang Chung's 1984 hit "Dance Hall Days"? No one seemed to notice that there's not a human on Earth who could play that groove for four minutes.
I guess he never listened to James Brown!:p

[Grant]

Originally posted by christopher
how can someone mention milestones in music recording in the 80's and forget MIDI (musical instrument digital interface)?

at the time it was hailed as the biggest recording breakthrough since overdubbing and remains a prized tool in the studio to this day.

talk about forgetting your digital roots!

later, chris

I recall that in 1985 there was much buzz about Portland, OR duo Nu Shooz doing everything with MIDI.

Good music, a couple of hits, but it got old fast.

[Paul Chang]

I miss Milli Vanilli. ;)

[bob g.]

Dirk Diggler said it best in Boogie Nights.... " speed it up a couple of octaves!"

[Michael]

Yea, It used to be you had to know how to play! In my day If you wanted to learn a part, It was off the record! Ever try that? What a pain!

[Chip Stylus]

and I quote:

"In the old days my bunch used to think that Mike Love of The Beach Boys looked like a dork just
for just HOLDING the microphone on stage while singing."

Actually, he looked like a dork because he is, was, and always will be one (LOL)

AND this coming from the biggest BB's fan I ever met, ME!

"Columnated ruins domino"

I'm so old musically(38), I have trouble thinking of a synthesizer making noises that even approximate an acoustic instrument - excepting of course the mellotron (now THERE's an unearthly flute sound for you).

[christopher]

Originally posted by thomoz
and I quote:I have trouble thinking of a synthesizer making noises that even approximate an acoustic.

and for all the people who looked at the synthesizer in the mid-60's and thought "think of all the instruments it could reproduce", there were just as many who thought "think of all the new sounds we could make up!"

later, chris

[Patrick M]

Originally posted by Rspaight
The pop stuff these days hardly lends itself to live performance, and when it is performed live it's usually heavily processed, so what are the kids gonna use as a reference to know better?



There will always be real music performed by real people out there -- it will just probably not be Top 40. Or perhaps it will be -- these things go in cycles, and maybe in a few years the kids will get sick of the "cyber cool" marketing hype and get into old-fashioned handmade music.

OK, Ryan, you're in Kentucky, you're complaining about current pop music, but you admit that real music will always be out there, performed by real people.

This begs the question -- did you go see Adrian Belew & The Bears tonight in Lexington? If not, are you going tomorrow in Louisville? Or Saturday at Newport?

[Patrick M]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Even outside the recording studio, groups on stage can get away with murder and no one seems to care, as long as it is loud enough.
I strongly dislike blanket statements like this.

Bands like King's X, Dixie Dregs, and Alien Love Child have all played LA in the last few months -- what do you have to complain about? Did you go to any of those shows?

Funny how things change though. In my day, if you didn't play an instrument, unless you were the lead singer in a band, you would be laughed off the stage.
If pop/rock musicians were so gifted back in the day, why did the Wrecking Crew exist? What did so many people get their start as studio musicians back then?

Now, the mics are attached to your head. People in my crowd think that is so bogus looking.
What difference does it make what kind of mic you use? Michael Hedges used to use one of those headset mics, and he was one of the most incredible live performers I've ever seen.

Ah well, things change. What I think looks and sounds like *****, others go crazy over.
If you don't like it, you can always choose to either ignore it or turn it off. There will ALWAYS be good music, both recorded and live, and musicians with dedication and integrity. If you aren't out there enjoying them, then you've relegated yourself to being an armchair complainer and endlessly re-writing "the good ole days" in your mind. Your loss.

[Mike]

Originally posted by Rspaight
I'm "dispirited" by reading any article where Bon Jovi comes out looking like the Heroes of Authentic Music.

I can't say I'm a Bon Jovi fan, but he has a tight band - schooled for many years in the clubs of New Jersey!

[Patrick M]

Originally posted by mikey5967
Hey, guys, while I know what you guys are trying to say, this is really no big deal.

Mikey, I am in total agreement with everything in your post.

David Gilmour would create solos by improvising several takes, then picking out the good pieces, cutting them out, and splicing everything together into what you would eventually hear.

If he did this with a DAW instead of with tape, how does that make him less of a musician, less of an artist, less creative, less gifted?

There are, in fact, musicians who use technology to keep them more precise, in a legitimate way. When Megadeth recorded "Countdown to Extinction" a decade ago, they recorded digitally. They were so anal about the recording that they would check that bent notes were actually on pitch. If they weren't, they didn't use "AutoFixer," they re-recorded the part. I don't have a problem with that, in theory.

I know, you folks are wanting to jump on the 'everything new sucks' bandwagon and, once again, I'm not buying it. I'm of the opinion that historically, there have always been crappy artists that were popular. It's not like we have some kind of lock on this phenomenon in 2002. New Kids on the Block, Bell Biv DeVoe, Vanilla Ice? Someone already mentioned Milli Vanilli. Why don't those names roll off your tongue? Because history has passed them by, their 15 minutes is up. It's all too easy to bitch about the flavor of the month, but I get tired of seeing it, and I think it's a colossal waste of time. Find something to like about your hobby, not something superficial to berate.

[Rspaight]

OK, Ryan, you're in Kentucky, you're complaining about current pop music, but you admit that real music will always be out there, performed by real people.

This begs the question -- did you go see Adrian Belew & The Bears tonight in Lexington? If not, are you going tomorrow in Louisville? Or Saturday at Newport?

Heh -- touche. No, I didn't make the show -- I don't get out to shows much anymore. Too lazy, too much work, too much smoke at the clubs, etc., etc.. I did notice they were playing and thought it would be fun to go, but my wife had to work late last night and I doubt me going to a show without her on Valentine's Day would be good karma...

Point well taken in that I have no right to complain if I don't go out and support the real thing. But what fun would that be?

I can't say I'm a Bon Jovi fan, but he has a tight band - schooled for many years in the clubs of New Jersey!

True. It just seems odd given their overproduced eighties stuff that now they'd be the "old guard" shaking their heads at the state of pop. Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

Ryan

[Patrick M]

Originally posted by Rspaight
Heh -- touche. No, I didn't make the show -- I don't get out to shows much anymore. Too lazy, too much work, too much smoke at the clubs, etc., etc.. I did notice they were playing and thought it would be fun to go, but my wife had to work late last night and I doubt me going to a show without her on Valentine's Day would be good karma...

Would you believe The Bears are playing smoke-free shows? Seriously, people were all huddled outside Lynagh's puffing away when I went in.

You missed a really excellent show. They only did one non-Bears tune, but it was "RED" -- oh my, that ROCKED! :D

[PsychFan]

In case anyone never noticed, the level of artifice in the recordings of, say, The Beatles -- even in the early days, with all that double-tracking of the voices -- was huge.

Only the methods have changed.

[Rspaight]

Would you believe The Bears are playing smoke-free shows? Seriously, people were all huddled outside Lynagh's puffing away when I went in.

Really? That's cool. I'm pretty allergic to smoke, so that would make the gig-going experience much more pleasant.

Ryan