LP transfers: Vinyl --> HiFi VCR --> CD?

[Damián]

Fellow Hoffmanites :),

I know many of you transfer LPs to CDR at home, so here's a question:

My turntable (and preamp, and.. ) is on one end of the house, so to speak, and the PC (soundcard and burner) is on the other. Moving either would be a major hassle.

The only recording component right now in my system is a HiFi stereo VCR, since my tape deck gave up the ghost long ago.

I know there are some issues with built-in limiting in consumer grade VCRs, but other than that (I assume if I don't hit the tape hard the limiter shouldn't kick in, right?) would it be OK to use the VCR as an 'inbetween'?

Carrying the VCR over to the computer is certainly easier, and the only thing I can think of. Being a one-time thing (I want a CDR of my Sundazed 'Bringing it all.. ') I'd like to make do with what I have, if it's possible.

BTW, Steve (or whoever else cares): this is a mono LP, so should I combine L+R right out the preamp, should I record as-is and combine on the PC, should I pick the best sounding channel, leave things alone, .. ?!?

Thanks in advance for anything you could contribute

[quadanasazilands]

Guess so if you want crappy conversions.

[Claviusb]

Please elaborate, Dave.

[Steve Hoffman]

Originally posted by quadanasazilands
Guess so if you want crappy conversions.

Mikey, I thought I told you to keep an eye on your friend.

Talk about a worthless post.

[Ed Bishop]

Sounds kinda sketchy to me. For one thing, since you're dubbing an Lp, if it could be done, you still have to pause the deck between sides 1 & 2, and any pause--even using the best mode, SP--would mean a clicking sound or a noiseof some kind. And even not factoring that in, you'd probably need a pretty decent tape, and hope when you play it back, it tracks properly, which is the real problem with all VCR's: the tracking from machine to machine, and even tape to tape, is so variable and erratic.

The other question, though, is whether you can convert the TT signal to the VCR properly. Some older VCR's allowed for volume level control; most today probably don't.

But I do know you can plug a CD player directly into the audio-ins of a VCR and record the signal to a reasonable quality of sound. Transferring to a PC, though, CD or vinyl, I'm not so sure that's worth your time.

ED:cool:

[-=Rudy=-]

I miss my JVC HRS-560U, one of the first HiFi/HQ/MTS stereo VCRs on the market. No compression on the HiFi tracks--it actually had a level adjustment for the signal. Still, the sound was never quite up to par with what I could get from a good metal cassette in my Harman Kardon deck.

Almost better to ask if someone has the same album on vinyl and have them copy it for you. ;) (If I had a copy, I'd gladly do one for you.) My 'go-between' for awhile was a DAT deck. Still inconvenient, but I knew I'd get good sound over to the computer.

[Damián]

Originally posted by Ed Bishop
Sounds kinda sketchy to me. For one thing, since you're dubbing an Lp, if it could be done, you still have to pause the deck between sides 1 & 2, and any pause--even using the best mode, SP--would mean a clicking sound or a noiseof some kind. And even not factoring that in, you'd probably need a pretty decent tape, and hope when you play it back, it tracks properly, which is the real problem with all VCR's: the tracking from machine to machine, and even tape to tape, is so variable and erratic.

The other question, though, is whether you can convert the TT signal to the VCR properly. Some older VCR's allowed for volume level control; most today probably don't.

But I do know you can plug a CD player directly into the audio-ins of a VCR and record the signal to a reasonable quality of sound. Transferring to a PC, though, CD or vinyl, I'm not so sure that's worth your time.

ED:cool:

It IS kinda sketchy :).

Yes, the tape would have to be stopped between sides 1 & 2, but I can let it roll a little after the side's over, pause, and then cut out dead space on the PC.

Tracking shouldn't (I assume) be much of an issue since I won't be changing machines (I'd record the album onto VHS, then carry the VCR over to the PC and record onto Cooledit).

Thanks for your comments Ed

Cheers,

Damián

[Steve Hoffman]

I've made VHS Hi-Fi copies from LP's before. They turned out ok. I hope you have VU meters or some kind of manual gain control....

Combine your channels L+R anywhere down the line. It won't make much difference.

[Ed Bishop]

Originally posted by Damián


It IS kinda sketchy :).

Yes, the tape would have to be stopped between sides 1 & 2, but I can let it roll a little after the side's over, pause, and then cut out dead space on the PC.

Tracking shouldn't (I assume) be much of an issue since I won't be changing machines (I'd record the album onto VHS, then carry the VCR over to the PC and record onto Cooledit).

Thanks for your comments Ed

Cheers,

Damián

Well, it's worth a shot, and if nothing else, Damian, an interesting experiment. Since you're going to put it into Cooledit, I can assume you're going to do what you can to remove any vinyl ticks and pops and adjust the volume to proper levels.

Very novel! A classic 'necessity is the mama of invention'....

Please do let us know how it turns out!:)

ED:cool:

[proufo]

If I got it right at the time VHS-HiFi was the big thing, dropouts in the VHS tape are frequent.

I'd hate to do all that work and get a nasty dropout in the recording.

[Damián]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
I've made VHS Hi-Fi copies from LP's before. They turned out ok. I hope you have VU meters or some kind of manual gain control....

Combine your channels L+R anywhere down the line. It won't make much difference.

The VCR has some kind of level meters on the LCD.. I don't expect them to be too accurate but they'll probably do the job.

Originally posted by Ed Bishop


Well, it's worth a shot, and if nothing else, Damian, an interesting experiment. Since you're going to put it into Cooledit, I can assume you're going to do what you can to remove any vinyl ticks and pops and adjust the volume to proper levels.

Very novel! A classic 'necessity is the mama of invention'....

Please do let us know how it turns out!:)

ED:cool:

Well the LP is still very much in new condition, so I expect it won't need much more than perhaps filling in one or two clicks.

I'll post back when I'm done (won't be too soon.. :rolleyes: ). Perhaps I'll go for a CDR of my VU & Nico LP while I'm at it :).

Thanks for the advice guys

Damián

[Cafe Jeff]

Another though is, can you get your hands on a separate phono-stage? That way, all you need to do is drag the turntable over. Skipping a generation has, by definition, to be a good thing. I have used a Hi Fi VHS to very good effect recording radio. 8 hours on one tape is not to be sniffed at. Jeff

[quadanasazilands]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman


Mikey, I thought I told you to keep an eye on your friend.

Talk about a worthless post.

Ouch spank me again please!

I was in a hurry, I think Ed covered it pretty well.

For conversions I want to use the best possible gear I have so the end result is maximised. I would move my Table or buy one and do all my conversions and sell the table when done.

[sgraham]

I think most recent VCRs (most of the ones I've seen) just have a fixed recording level. Perfectly adequate for recording off TV from the built-in tuner. While I certainly wouldn't call this a purist approach, it'd work in a pinch, as long as your stereo's levels are in the ballpark for the VCR. You'll lose a bit of transient response and may gain a spot of buzzyness here and there. How much noise you get depends on the VCR.

I'd combine to mono later, post VCR, since this will minimize the audibility of random VHS-HiFi artifacts.

[RetroSmith]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman


Mikey, I thought I told you to keep an eye on your friend.

Talk about a worthless post.



>>>>Steve, how the heck did I get involved???

:))



Mikey

[Grant]

Damian, taking your turntable to the computer if you have a phono stage seems to be a good idea. Otherwise, if you can indeed, attenuate the recording levels, use the VCR. As long as you don't plan to do any de-noising, all should be OK. You won't get an exact replica, but you should be fine.

[Steve Hoffman]

Ah, you guys. Too spoiled. Remember the days of recording albums on to screechy Cassettes for the car? I think any VHS-Hi-Fi tape would sound better. I would hope so at any rate....

[Grant]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Ah, you guys. Too spoiled. Remember the days of recording albums on to screechy Cassettes for the car? I think any VHS-Hi-Fi tape would sound better. I would hope so at any rate....

I've done both. My cassettes actually sounded better.

[Graham Start]

Years ago, I used a Sony VHS Hi-Fi deck for copying borrowed vinyl, as well as recording my own noodlings. It was way better than cassette ever could be. Mind you, this was a fairly pricey deck with proper metering and level controls -- a far cry from the cheapo decks available today.

[GoldenBoy]

Originally posted by Grant


I've done both. My cassettes actually sounded better.

I have to agree with Grant. I had a nice Hi-Fi VCR with it's own gain control and level meters and used to use really high quality cassettes. I'd done some recording onto VHS, but they never sounded as good as a professional quality metal cassette recorded on my Tascam.

[sgraham]

VHS HiFi has one undisputable advantage over cassettes: No flutter.

[Damián]

Well I've just finished doing the first part of the transfer, the LP --> VHS part.

I went out the tape outs on the preamp straight to the audio input of the VCR. The tape outs are IIRC not affected by tone control settings, nor the mono/stereo switch or anything else (I couldn't find it specifically on the manual, but I'm quite sure it's that way. Should be, in any case).

Anyway, I got the tape rolling and watched the levels from time to time (there's no level control on my VCR), and there were never any peaks beyond 0.

I then listened to the playback from the VCR (I'd hooked it up as if it was a regular tape deck, ie. audio out to Tape In on the preamp) and it sounds .. acceptable.

It doesn't sound distorted or 'splatty' as I'd expect it to sound if the limiter on the VCR had kicked in, nor are there any audible (to me) tracking artifacts or other such stuff.

What I hadn't counted on is the hissss. I know it's just another analog tape format, but I recall having already used VHS for recording audio before and I don't remember it as being particularly hissy.

It's a bit more intrusive than I'd like on a 'finished' needle drop, even if it's just for personal use.. I'm not sure whether I'll end up burning to CD or not.

I guess it was worth it at least for the experience, if nothing else.. if I do decide to record onto the PC I might u/l an MP3 or two for you guys to check out :sigh: :rolleyes:.

Thanks again for all your suggestions

Damián

[sgraham]

The hiss is probably just from the analog electronics. The VHS-HiFi process doesn't have a significant amount of hiss inherently - my Sony is quiet, but my cheap Philips is hissy.

[Cafe Jeff]

I am going to agree with sgrham here.
I also did not find my Hi Fi VHS tapes particularly hissy. Jeff

[Damián]

Originally posted by sgraham
The hiss is probably just from the analog electronics. The VHS-HiFi process doesn't have a significant amount of hiss inherently - my Sony is quiet, but my cheap Philips is hissy.

Originally posted by Cafe Jeff
I am going to agree with sgrham here.
I also did not find my Hi Fi VHS tapes particularly hissy. Jeff

It must be my cheap Philips then :realmad:

Damn.