Al Green "Greatest Hits" DVD-A

[romanotrax]

First... I have to say that this is one of my favorite albums ever.

I just finished listening to Al Green in DVD-A for the first time. I love this album even more now with a nice solid surround mix (no fancy tricks here... just an enveloping sound) that really opens the whole thing up. Not that it was ever cluttered to being with but nicely opened up with a surround remix by original engineer Willie Mitchell.

I am listening to the DVD version that will play on a DVD video player (just so you know).

Background vocals and the horns and strings mostly in the back as filler, lead vocal and rhythm guitar in the center and not an overly heavy bass track as happens sometimes on these discs.

You actually get 3 versions to choose from on this disc (using a DVD-V player). DTS 5.1 (my personal fave), Dolby Digital 5.1 and a Stereo mix. The stereo mix is the only way you can hear the track "Belle" because of the absence of the multi-track tape.

Great clarity, nice extras (photos-discography etc.) and most importantly great songs by an unbelievable singer!!!! You can't go wrong here!!!

[lennonfan]

I love that album too and have a quadraphonic 8-track of it...I can't wait to hear the DVD-A! That album should have been titled: Everything You'll Ever Need To Know About Al Green;)
yep, it's -that- good!

[JohnT]

I take it this was released today? Thanks for the heads up and were any other DVD-A's released as well?

Eric Johnson? Leon Russel? The Beatl.... right.

[romanotrax]

Al Green was released today (2-12-02).

I think that the Eric Johnson was supposed to be released today as well but I didn't see it at Best Buy.

[Grant]

Background singers and horns in the BACK????? Sounds unnatural to me. This is what I call an example of unnatural surround panning. It's the main thing that keeps me from buying DVD-A.

Now, SACD multichannel discs seem to be mixed much more realistically. I want to be facing the performer, not surrounded by the band.

[romanotrax]

Ok Grant...

You tell the original engineer (Willie Mitchell - who remixed this one) he's wrong. I am sure he has no clue what he's doing
:D

I dare say if he did the mix for a multichannel SACD it would probably be the same mix.

Bob

[Paul Chang]

Then he will still be wrong. He probably wished he could have been on stage/in the studio playing/singing along with Rev. Al. I want to sit in the audience, not in the microphone. :D

[Grant]

Originally posted by romanotrax
Ok Grant...

You tell the original engineer (Willie Mitchell - who remixed this one) he's wrong. I am sure he has no clue what he's doing
:D

I dare say if he did the mix for a multichannel SACD it would probably be the same mix.

Bob
Actually, I DO think the original producer/engineer Willie Mitchell is wrong with this. Whatever he did, I don't like it. As with the Eagles DVD-A of "Hotel California", I don't like the idea of putting the listener on the stage with the band. It doesn't make sense to put the guitar and vocal in the center and the horns in the back. It only makes sense if you want to pretend you are Al on stage!

UNLESS, maybe something went wrong in the mastering process...

[lennonfan]

The quad 8-track mix has some similarities with the new DVD-A from what I've read so far here, so let me say that the idea for a mix like this is to be in the -studio- with Al Green, not in an audience watching him on stage.
Realistically, if the band was partitioned off for maximum separation on the recorded tracks, it's most likely you'd have al in front, maybe a guitar player over on the right, drums could be in front or off to the side, horns behind you....I guess I'm gonna have to head out to Best Buy's today;)
What a great album release....gotta have it:)

[Paul Chang]

Just think about it. If you were to be Rev. Al on stage with the band, the image presented by the front channels should be the mirror image of that by the stereo mix. The audience's left is your their right and right your left. :confused:

[romanotrax]

---Originally posted by Grant [/i]

"Actually, I DO think the original producer/engineer Willie Mitchell is wrong with this. Whatever he did, I don't like it. As with the Eagles DVD-A of "Hotel California", I don't like the idea of putting the listener on the stage with the band. It doesn't make sense to put the guitar and vocal in the center and the horns in the back. It only makes sense if you want to pretend you are Al on stage!"


Grant...
I don't get you stereo purists at all. I love stereo too BUT if it's ok with the original producers and band members (Bill Symczyk-Eagles, Mickey Hart-Grateful Dead, and Willie Mitchell-Al Green) then it's ok with me. The whole point of a surround mix in my opinion (and that of Mr. Symczyk and Mr Hart) is to make the listener feel like he is part of the whole experience - like he or she is right there. I understand that I am "in the studio" and the sound is all around me. I guess that's just me wanting to be a part of the music from the inside rather than just being a casual observer from the front. And please remember that, even with stereo mixes, instrument and vocal placement are manipulated as well so I guess you only get what someone wants you to hear, not necessarily what actaully happened (I guess you guys have never seen pictures of a lead guitarist laying down his guitar solo while seated in the control room... where is that exactly in the stereo field???)

And I have heard SACD multichannel mixes, Grant, and they do the exact same thing as the DVD-A mixes. Instruments and vocals are placed wherever the remix producer WANTS them to be.

[JohnT]

Most of these DVD-A's also contain a stereo high resolution mix in addition to the surround mix. In other words, no need to be so harsh because the multichannel mix doesn't float your boat. I haven't seen or heard the Al Green disc yet, but the stereo mix should be there.

One DVD-A that only has the multichannel mix is Bela Fleck's bluegrass vol 2.

[Grant]

Originally posted by romanotrax
---

I guess that's just me wanting to be a part of the music from the inside rather than just being a casual observer from the front. And please remember that, even with stereo mixes, instrument and vocal placement are manipulated as well so I guess you only get what someone wants you to hear, not necessarily what actaully happened (I guess you guys have never seen pictures of a lead guitarist laying down his guitar solo while seated in the control room... where is that exactly in the stereo field???)


But the final multi-mix is just not realistic! At least with stereo, if they manipulated things it was all still in front of you. I never did like hard panning and ping-ponging, either!

IF you are going to mix to a higher resolutionton one should try to get things right. You may wanna be part of the session but I would rather be in the mixing room. And, i'm a drummer, so I usually get the perspective of everything being in front of me anyway.



And I have heard SACD multichannel mixes, Grant, and they do the exact same thing as the DVD-A mixes. Instruments and vocals are placed wherever the remix producer WANTS them to be.

Uh, the ones i've heard don't do this. The ones i've heard simply give you a three-demensional image, NOT things going on in back of you that shouldn't be there.

All of this is starting to make me wonder if people's multi-channel speakers are even tweaked properly.

Anyway, all this unnatural mixing going on is exactly what I feared would happen with surround sound, producers taking wild liberties with the mixes.:(

Back to mono!

[TimM]

All the DVD-A discs I own offer Hi-Rez stereo versions along with the surround sound. As long as this is the case I don't have any problem with it. I fully agree that the original mixes should be preserved, but I veiw the surround mixes as a chance to hear a more "open" mix. It may not be "natural" but it is interesting and I don't think it will knock the earth out of orbit.

[Paul Chang]

Originally posted by Grant
And, i'm a drummer, so I usually get the perspective of everything being in front of me anyway. Grant,

But that's the opposite of the audience's perspective, right? :) And it can't be reproduced just by flipping the left and right channels. The whole image has to be mirrored. :D

I totaly agree with you on wanting natural sounding mixes, even with plugged-in amplified performances.

[christopher]

Originally posted by Grant

All of this is starting to make me wonder if people's multi-channel speakers are even tweaked properly.

enough!

don't like it? don't listen. just keep buying your sony stock.

i got the disc yesterday and have played back all four mixes and it sounds fantastic!

later, chris

[Michael]

When performing on stage I always wanted to be in the audience to appreciate our performance, I'm really not interested in hearing from the on stage soundstage.
I guess for now I will have to settle with my many,many ,many boring old TWO CHANNEL CDs!

[Grant]

Originally posted by christopher


enough!

don't like it? don't listen. just keep buying your sony stock.

i got the disc yesterday and have played back all four mixes and it sounds fantastic!

later, chris

Hey, I was just presenting my dissatisfaction with the whole current philosophy concerning surround-sound mixing.

Last time I checked we are allowed to disagree on things as long as they don't get personal.

And it is fair to wonder if there were mastering mistakes or the end user's system is not set up correctly. I'm not one of those people who jump into something just because of a "coolness" factor.

[Holy Zoo]

Originally posted by Grant

Last time I checked we are allowed to disagree on things as long as they don't get personal.


Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

:D

[pigmode]

Yeah, they could do a surround CD of Britney Spears and have her voice pan all the way around. It would be like she's walking around you and singing just for you. :rolleyes:

[Grant]

Originally posted by pigmode
Yeah, they could do a surround CD of Britney Spears and have her voice pan all the way around. It would be like she's walking around you and singing just for you. :rolleyes:

Naked, I hope!