'98 Billy Joel remasters

[AKA]

Columbia really missed the mark with these. There are glitches all over the CDs, especially Storm Front.

It's a shame they couldn't get it right the first time (no pun intended).

[Grant]

Originally posted by AKA
Columbia really missed the mark with these. There are glitches all over the CDs, especially Storm Front.

It's a shame they couldn't get it right the first time (no pun intended).
Can you give us some particulars? I have almost all of them and I didn't notice anything amiss. They sound great to my ears.

[guy incognito]

Who cares? It's Billy Joel, for God's sake! :-P

[Dugan]

The ones I have seem to be ok.

BTW Alot of us care.

[Grant]

Originally posted by guy incognito
Who cares? It's Billy Joel, for God's sake! :-P

A lot of people happen to LIKE Billy Joel's music, thank you!!! The man has talent and makes damn good music.

[AKA]

Well, I was exaggerating a little. The problem isn't as bad as I made it out to be in my thread-starting post.

The glitches are mostly isolated to two CDs - "Storm Front" and "An Innocent Man."

"Storm Front" is the biggie, though, as you can hear weird "gulps" all throughout the CD, most notably on "We Didn't Start The Fire," "The Downeaster 'Alexa,'" and the title track.

Listen closely at the beginning of "Fire," and you'll hear a high-pitched gulp at the beginning of the song, and right after the "Santayana goodbye" line.

On "An Innocent Man," you can hear another gulp during the song "Christie Lee," right on the word "tell" in the first line ("Let me tell you a story...")

[Dave]

Who cares? It's Billy Joel, for God's sake! :-P

I agree with Grant 101%!! Billy Joel is a fabulous song writer!!

Grant: Just for my own curiousity do you own 52nd St. on Mastersound (gold cd)? It sounds just great!;)

[Beagle]

I have "The Stranger" remaster (Ted Jensen) and it sounds very good. I MUST pick up "Piano Man". I wish that one was available on SACD.

[PsychFan]

Originally posted by Dave
Grant: Just for my own curiousity do you own 52nd St. on Mastersound (gold cd)? It sounds just great!;)

I ain't Grant, but I own this and I too am impressed with the sound -- it's one of the best of Sony's gold CDs.

[Paul C.]

Billy Joel seems to be one of those artists who has fallen from favour. I find his output to be a mixed bag - there are bits that I love, and other bits that I can't stand.

"The Stranger" is a classic, and I have been wanting to get it in the latest 24-bit remaster. I have "52nd Street" on gold MasterSound - haven't played it for ages, but remember that it sounded pretty good. The only recent remaster I picked up was "The Bridge" - it's a bit of a dog's breakfast sort of album, but I do like it for the tasty organ work of Steve Winwood on "Getting Closer". I had the old CD of this album, which suffered from harshness and caused sore ears. the newer one is still bright but a lot easier to listen to.

[Grant]

Well, thre's a lot to be said for "Glass Houses", "Songs In The Attic", and the heavily Beatles influenced "The Nylon Curtain".

[Beagle]

All a Ted Jensen or Joseph Palmaccio will usually do is add stuff so that when you pop it on and A/B between the old and the new, the average listener will think that louder and brighter is better

That's what incompetent/ignorant/A&R-person-with-a-gun-to-his-head mastering engineers do. A good one will take the best master, run it though the least compromised/colored/most neutral gear and bring it out as unscathed/unaltered as possible. During the first 10 years of CD, this did not happen often. With the Eagles and Billy Joel remasters that Jensen did, I found them to be closer to the original LPs than the original CD issues. So I don't think he is "adding stuff", just delivering more accuracy.

[AKA]

Originally posted by Beagle


That's what incompetent/ignorant/A&R-person-with-a-gun-to-his-head mastering engineers do. A good one will take the best master, run it though the least compromised/colored/most neutral gear and bring it out as unscathed/unaltered as possible. During the first 10 years of CD, this did not happen often. With the Eagles and Billy Joel remasters that Jensen did, I found them to be closer to the original LPs than the original CD issues. So I don't think he is "adding stuff", just delivering more accuracy.

But he could have paid a little bit more attention to what he was doing, especially while remastering "Storm Front."

To be honest, I do like the job he did on most of the Billy remasters, especially "Glass Houses," "Turnstiles," and "The Stranger."

[Grant]

[i]

For instance, "Storm Front" was mastered for CD and released in 1989. Well into the "CD era". I assume that the master was used, and it was made to sound like Billy WANTED it to sound. All a Ted Jensen or Joseph Palmaccio will usually do is add stuff so that when you pop it on and A/B between the old and the new, the average listener will think that louder and brighter is better...

[/B]

I disagree. Just because it's older doesn't mean it's better. Now, Ted jensen is known for making things sound more "modern", while Joe Palmaccio will take great care to preserve what's there. In fact, he doesn't belong in this discussion.

I A/B'd the old Billy Joel CDs with the LPs and the new CDs with the LPs. Guess what kids, the newer CDs sound more like the LPs.

Not even Steve Hoffman would make a blanket statement that all new CDs sound worse.

[Rob LoVerde]

Beagle:

Those engineers you speak of won't need a gun to their head. Just the reality that the name of the major-label reissue game is USUALLY(!) A) make a louder CD than what's out there / B) make it brighter. Could I be wrong? Of course!!

But believe me, these A&R dudes don't necessarily come to the studio to listen to the work. They take a CD-R and listen in their office, with the bass and treble knobs all over the place. As with new material, engineers are afraid they will lose a client if they don't make things sound "bigger" and "bolder". It sucks, but it's true.

I've seen some of my co-workers get phone calls saying that their mastering wasn't enough of an "improvement" over an earlier one. This drives me crazy. Mostly what the majors want is for it to sound like I stated earlier. Trust me.

"Accuracy" has nothing to do with it...

However, I'm glad you're enjoying those newer Billy Joel discs. That's all that counts...

Grant:

You're right, older doesn't mean better, either. I didn't make any blanket statement...

[AKA]

Bump.

[snowman]

Storm Front.... the typical lazy remaster which is becoming so common these days....bass/treble and general volume to a lesser extent, all moved 'up'.
To be fair the original does sound a bit messy though.
Depends on your ears and hifi components I guess.
Songs from the attic sounds pretty good to me, although I don't have the original to compare.

[joelee]

I don't own the Storm Front or Innocent Man re-masters but I'm happy with the ones I do have, Piano Man-The Stranger. My favorite Joel LP is Songs in the Attic(love the live versions from Streetlife Serenade and Turnstiles).
I also have the Gold disc of 52nd St. and it does sound great. I've always liked side 2 of this LP, was never a fan of My Life or Big Shot.

[Dan C]

The remasters I own sound good to my ears. "Piano Man" was a murky mess on the original CD. Clear and warm to me now on the new one. "Songs In the Attic" was harsh and hard to crank up, again the new CD is more like the original LP.
And "Turnstiles", perhaps my favorite Joel album, is a dramatic improvemnt even over the LP. It's a flat and sort of weird mix, the CD is much more detailed and still warm and musical. I'll pick up the others as time goes on, but I'm happy with the vinyl I already have.

Good Joel vinyl from "The Stranger" on is very easy to find. "Nylon Curtain" on the original LP is a thing of beauty. Digital, but it has an intense and dynamic sound that fits the music.

Dan C

[Grant]

Dan C.,

You are probably the only one here who agrees withg me that the remastered CDs sound better than the vinyl LPs. But, I prefer "The Nylon Curtain" on CD simply because it IS a digital recording, like the "new" tracks on the first Greatest Hits" and "The Bridge".

My favorite Billy Joel albums are "Songs In The Attic", "The Nylon Curtain", "Glass Houses", and "Storm Front". Yes, I do like "An Innocent Man" but music video wore it out for me. I still can't listen to it without wincing. All I can think of is that damned "Uptown Girl" video! The song is obnoxious too!

[Beagle]

Originally posted by Grant
Dan C.,

You are probably the only one here who agrees withg me that the remastered CDs sound better than the vinyl LPs I agree with you too. At least Piano Man and The Stranger sound better than my LP copies of same.

I find that on each subsequent Billy Joel album after Piano Man, the treble gets turned up a bit more and things get hotter, with the exception of The Stranger which almost seems slightly muffled on top. Parts of that record almost sound mono with some stereo "trimmings".

I recall when 52nd Street was originally released, I was working part-time in a record store and people were bringing the album back in droves because of a skipping problem on My Life. The record was simply cut too hot for the majority of crappy "turntables" it was being played on. The subsequent issued were cut at a lower level and sounded lousy.