Rear Projection Thoughts

[-=Rudy=-]

I'm seriously considering getting a nice big rear projection TV in a few months, once everything is done being modified here at home. Since I've had such good luck in the past with Mitsubishi, that's what I'll be going with.

One of my fellow SH Forum acquaintances has one of the sets and is happy with it. Anyone else?

What I'm looking at would be in the Gold Series, meaning it is a 16x9. (The Silver Series is 4:3.) http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/

I can get the 55" locally for $2,199, and the 65" for $2,799. I need to look at these in person to see which one I really want...even the 48" might be a possibility, since I don't want a large overbearing hunk of a cabinet in my living room. (Ideally I'd get a front projector mounted on the ceiling, but don't want to put out the $$$ for it.)

One thing that I'm debating is whether or not to get one of their sets that has the HDTV tuner built into it (moving up to the Platinum series). Since I'm unaware of any local HDTV programming, or if DirecTV even has anything, I see no need for it. I'd primarily watch DVDs with it. One advantage is that Mits is offering an upgrade path (and a written guarantee) since HDTV technology is changing so rapidly. That is one major reason I would not want to get the HDTV tuner--I may want to wait until the standards settle down and we know where this is headed.

[SamS]

Hi Rudy,

Now is an exciting time for HDTV. Rear projections can have an amazing picture when set up correctly. Better than tubes and most front projectors.

First off, I should let you know that I sold Mitsubishi and other nice HDTV gear at a very high-end A/V shop for several years. I'm out of that business now, but I enjoyed it a lot.

You're on the right track with Mitsubishi. Overall their line is the very best value in the RPTV market. Your major decision is to get one with an integrated tuner or not. I'll recommend "yes" even if you don't have access to terrestrial HDTV via antenna yet. Why? Well the sets with the tuners built in have better technology and hardware than the comparible HDTV-ready models. Plus, you may like the "Netcommand" feature of the HDTV-integrated sets. The major feature that the better sets have is Firewire IEEE1394 which you can do some really cool stuff with like record HDTV. Even if you decided to get a satellite HDTV tuner in the future, they will have this IEEE1394 jack to connect to the boxes that record. Very important to consider.

You don't really need to wait until the standards settle, HDTV is roaring full steam ahead right now. You're missing great stuff every day!!

Some people may warn about DVI, a different digital connector that actually has little use for the end consumer. It just allows Hollywood to restrict your HDTV view. Stay away IMO.

As for size, how far would you sit from the screen?

[GabeG]

Originally posted by SamS

Some people may warn about DVI, a different digital connector that actually has little use for the end consumer. It just allows Hollywood to restrict your HDTV view. Stay away IMO.



I beg to differ. You absolutely should look for a set the DVI. This connector IS becoming more prominent with both HDTV boxes and DVD players. The advantage is the signal remains digital from the source all the way to the tube. The less d/a and a/d, the better - just like in audio.

The copyright issue applies to any kind of digital interface, not just to DVI. When you get your set, you might want to check Samsung's new DVD player which not only deinterlaces, but scales the image to 720p. From my understanding the only way to get the 720p to your set is via the player'
s DVI output.

[SamS]

Originally posted by GabeG


I beg to differ. You absolutely should look for a set the DVI. This connector IS becoming more prominent with both HDTV boxes and DVD players. The advantage is the signal remains digital from the source all the way to the tube. The less d/a and a/d, the better - just like in audio.

The copyright issue applies to any kind of digital interface, not just to DVI. When you get your set, you might want to check Samsung's new DVD player which not only deinterlaces, but scales the image to 720p. From my understanding the only way to get the 720p to your set is via the player'
s DVI output.

How many DVD players have DVI? Three? Two of them from brands you must get overseas?

The value of DVI with an analog CRT display is highly subject to debate. Certainly its inclusion on a set shouldn't come at the expense of inferior lens or performance quality.

Why should Rudy be concerned with a Samsung player that scales to 720p? Are there even any CRT reprojection sets (even in his price range?) that can scan 720p? On a display size that small, properly focused 480p can be spectacular.

Performance benefits from DVI may be evident at megabuck 50"plasma displays or 720p DLP projectors, even though we're barely into DVD players that can take significant advantages of the potential benefits.

Why support Hollywood and their potential restriction on your HD outputs. Vote with your dollar. Firewire products can give you the same benefits and actually support recording HD.

[Cliff]

Rudy, I have the WS-65909 (65" W/S Diamond Series) from Mitsubishi. I did a LOT of research before buying it. I had never bought a Mitsu before, but I had heard only good things about them. I went to many local shops to compare picture quality and features. The last place I went was a nice high-end store that had Sony (which is what I expected to buy going into the whold RPTV thing), Mitsubishi, and Pioneer Elite. The Mitsubishi looked the best. Well, the Pioneer did actually look fractionally better, but it was several thousand dollars more than the Mitsu.

I am very happy with it. It was pretty good, right out of the box, except for minimal convergence, and the crappy factory settings for picture. DVDs are astonishing when watched through it. Directv broadcasting looks pretty bad, IMO. But that has nothing to do with the TV itself.

I went with the built-in DTV tuner because I didn't want to add one of the external boxes later on. I too, have very little OTA broadcasts in my area, so I have only used it minimally. But at least I've got it for future broadcasting.

And as a side note, I would recommend buying your aftermarket warranty over the internet. Mine was about half of what the dealer wanted, and it added a whole year to the coverage (which is in-home for the duration). I think it's GE, but I'll have to dig up the info to make sure. But, it's a big/reputable company! Anyway, good luck, and I'm sure you won't be disappointed with the Mitsu if you choose it.

Cliff

[SamS]

Originally posted by Cliff
Rudy, I have the WS-65909 (65" W/S Diamond Series) from Mitsubishi.


Beauty of a set, Cliff. I have the WS-55908, smaller than yours, no tuner.

[Cliff]

Originally posted by SamS



Beauty of a set, Cliff. I have the WS-55908, smaller than yours, no tuner.


Thanks Sam. Why doesn't yours have the tuner? Isn't that model number a Diamond?

[SamS]

Cliff,

Yes, it's a Diamond. For a very short while in late 2001, Mitusbishi made two Diamond TVs (55908, 65908) that looking the same as yours from the outside including anti-glare screen, but are HDTV-ready only. Basically, the last ever Diamond that wasn't integrated.

Very highly desirable from the ISF-calibrator people. It does some good stuff, like format picture modes with 480p signals, something that current Mitsubishi modesl with tuners cannot do.

I added a Toshiba DirecTV HDTV tuner, and enjoy the combo very much.

[-=Rudy=-]

Originally posted by SamS

As for size, how far would you sit from the screen?

Anywhere from 10-16 feet---room is about 16x20.

[-=Rudy=-]

Originally posted by Cliff

Rudy, I have the WS-65909 (65" W/S Diamond Series) from Mitsubishi. I did a LOT of research before buying it. I had never bought a Mitsu before, but I had heard only good things about them. I went to many local shops to compare picture quality and features. The last place I went was a nice high-end store that had Sony (which is what I expected to buy going into the whold RPTV thing), Mitsubishi, and Pioneer Elite. The Mitsubishi looked the best. Well, the Pioneer did actually look fractionally better, but it was several thousand dollars more than the Mitsu.


Over the years, the family has had the best luck with Mits TVs. My mother had a 12" black & white from the mid 60's (under the "MGA" name) that still works to this day. Ditto grandmother's 19" color set, which still sits in dad's basement and works. I grabbed Dad's 27" which is only a few years old--has a nice picture to it. None of these have ever been repaired--they've all been rock solid.

A Sony rear projector just doesn't give me the warm fuzzies--I have a 36" KPR-36XBR in the basement that had been repaired three times for the same problem, just a poor design. And the picture is now fuzzy due to a bad green tube in it that costs $699 (for parts only) to replace. It did have a good picture when it worked--it was the brightest of all the sets, and sharp, but it did have a slight color shift when you sat on the left side of it vs. the right side. The other TV in our house now is a Sony 27" that is maybe 6-7 years old--decent picture but a poorly regulated power supply (the picture "pulls" when there is white content).

Best looking tube set my folks had was the NAD MR20....unfortunately it was also problematic. It still sits in their basement, but I don't know if it's worth getting fixed or not. It would be something I'd use if I were editing video on the computer.

[-=Rudy=-]

Originally posted by SamS

I added a Toshiba DirecTV HDTV tuner, and enjoy the combo very much.

That's another reason I might not want a built-in tuner for the Mits...I have DirecTV and plan on keeping it. If the Mits tuner worked with DirecTV though, I'd get it. The only time I watch anything broadcast over the airwaves is during NHL playoffs (and some of those are on ESPN anyway). I don't even watch DirecTV often myself, but the kids can't live w/o Nickelodeon and PBS Kids. ;)

What is it with DirecTV lately though? Seems like the compression gets worse each time I turn it on. When I first got it, I rarely noticed any compression artifacts. They've packed so many channels onto it now that the picture suffers quite noticeably. Still cheaper than cable.

Wonder if Sony makes an HDTV DirecTV tuner? My others are all Sony.

[Cliff]

The other TV in our house now is a Sony 27" that is maybe 6-7 years old--decent picture but a poorly regulated power supply (the picture "pulls" when there is white content).

That's why I was pretty set on buying a Sony RPTV. I have had a 27" for around 8 years, and it still looks outstanding. Never had a single problem with it. But for RPTVs, I've heard that Mitsu has been the most reliable. So far, I'm glad I listened to everyone who told me that :)

[Larry Johnson]

On the issue of built-in tuner or HDTV-ready, check out the recent
Consumer Reports TV issue. If I remember correctly, it strongly recommends HDTV-ready and staying away from the built-in tuner.

[teaser5]

I love my Pioneer Elite! The price has probably come down since I got mine two and a half years ago.
I watch a lot of HiDef TV. I really dig HDNet.
Cheers!
Norm

[GabeG]

Originally posted by Rudy@A&MCorner


Wonder if Sony makes an HDTV DirecTV tuner? My others are all Sony.


Sony sells one, but they don't make it and charge $200 extra to re-badge a Zenith manufactured model. Spend less money with the Zenith and get a better waranty.

[JohnG]

Walmart of all places sells a Pioneer 50" RPTV for an excellent price thru their website.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=1978033&cat=4561&type=19&dept=3944&path=0:3944:3987:3996:4561

[JohnG]

also if your in the market for your first HDTV, you own it to your self to get over to a BestBuy and check out the Samsung DLP TV's.

http://www.samsungusa.com/images/prod/product/b2c_hln507_sm.jpg

HLN507 (50" DLP HDTV with DVI input)

[-=Rudy=-]

Originally posted by GabeG

Sony sells one, but they don't make it and charge $200 extra to re-badge a Zenith manufactured model. Spend less money with the Zenith and get a better waranty.

I was wondering if, say, other brand DSS receivers would work with my Sony dish. I've heard both answers, yes and no...never have been sure. Plus I need a new "splitter" for it, so I can send it to more than two TVs. The one I bought is crap.

[-=Rudy=-]

Originally posted by Cliff


That's why I was pretty set on buying a Sony RPTV. I have had a 27" for around 8 years, and it still looks outstanding. Never had a single problem with it. But for RPTVs, I've heard that Mitsu has been the most reliable. So far, I'm glad I listened to everyone who told me that :)

To me, something as large as a RPTV means I want reliability to be my #1 criteria for purchasing. It breaks, you're talking about a service call, and being without it until it's fixed. Picture quality is a close second...everything else is gravy. :D Mits will run me a few hundred more than a Toshiba...although I have a 13" Toshiba in the house and it is a decent little set as well.

I have just experienced a good three or four Mits TVs in the family and they've been ultra reliable. A buddy of mine had a Pioneer RPTV from the mid 90's that he liked, but don't know if he still has it.

[GoldenBoy]

Originally posted by Rudy@A&MCorner


I was wondering if, say, other brand DSS receivers would work with my Sony dish. I've heard both answers, yes and no...never have been sure. Plus I need a new "splitter" for it, so I can send it to more than two TVs. The one I bought is crap.

I have had DirecTV since the service first began and there was USSB, a separate company, that actually carried most of the premium movie channels (HBO, ShowTime, etc.) and we would get two separate bills. I had to stay in contact with one of the executives at DirecTV for the first three months as we were one of only 2 families in our area to have it at the time and there were interference problems because of someone broadcasting with a 'roving license' from Lower Manhattan. At one point DirecTV even paid to have a large dish installed on the roof, until finally the rogue broadcasters were forced to stop and we went back to the standard, 18", DBS RCA dish. The man I was in contact with (I still have his name written down somewhere) informed me all those years ago that the system was designed to work with any brand dish/receiver combination. Now, we have two separate dishes on the roof, a first generation RCA dish and a first generation Sony dish with a mix of both Sony and RCA receivers, new and old, on both with four of them running through a Sony voltage switch box. Believe me when I tell you that it will work.

[-=Rudy=-]

GoldenBoy: that's good news. I suspected they would work, but wasn't sure. Thanks!

Gosh...USSB....forgot all about them. I'm glad they merged, only because the USSB basic channels were the only ones I wanted, and now I don't have to pay any extra to get them.

[teaser5]

During timeout of an NBA playoff game last week:
Cheers!
Norm

[JohnG]

Nice set-up Teaser!

If it wasn't for the sudden emergence of LCOS and DLP technology's, the Pioneer Elite RPTV's would be the one I would get for my first HDTV.

I've been patiently waiting for the past 3 years and the Pioneer's were always pricey. Now that I can afford one the Samsung DLP's show up plus Toshiba and Phillips may release very intriguing LCOS TV's real soon.

The wait continues.......

[teaser5]

OK, now you got me wondering what "LCOS" and "DLP" are and if I need to have them?

Also-do you guys ever have this? Only on a hi-def transmission and only sometimes I have this thing where the audio and video aren't cued up properly. I had it a few time on HBO HDTV for "Sex& The City" and just Saturday over the air for Bob Costas intro to The Belmont Stakes. Ideas?

Thanks!
Non Tekkie Norm...

[GoldenBoy]

Originally posted by teaser5
...Also-do you guys ever have this? Only on a hi-def transmission and only sometimes I have this thing where the audio and video aren't cued up properly. I had it a few time on HBO HDTV for "Sex& The City" and just Saturday over the air for Bob Costas intro to The Belmont Stakes. Ideas?


It happens to me watching DirecTV very often. I think, as far as the standard DirecTV broadcast is concerned, that it may have something to do with the process of compressing the signal. As video takes much more resources, it can sometimes fall behind the audio portion. Just a theory.