Mail order for vinyl

[SVL]

I would appreciate any advice that forum members may have on reliable mail order vinyl dealers - second-hand and audiophile - in the US, Canada, Germany, Switzerland or the UK that grade their vinyl honestly and do not charge an arm and a leg for international shipments. Any website links?

I know there is a whole bunch of them, just one caveat - should accept cash wired through Western Union or the like. Can't use plastic - too much fraud here.

TIA

[Ronflugelguy]

Try www.audiophileusa.com. Prices are sometimes high,but others are very reasonable, and he only sells the best condition in both LP and cover. His packing is second to none and since you need overseas delivery, that would be to your advantage.I've been to his house and John is a very nice guy!

[Paul Chang]

Red Trumpet
Web: http://www.redtrumpet.com/
Email: info@redtrumpet.com
Phone for International Customers: (717) 843-5562

Rick is always very nice and personable to me. I never wired money to RT so I can't comment on that. Send him an email or give him a call (International for you) and he will work with you.

IMO Red Trumpet has the best search engine among the mail order stores. While the others are trying to catch up, Rick told me the other day that they will have a revamped version coming on line soon.


Better Records
Email: tomport@earthlink.net
Phone: (818) 988-3313
Web: http://www.betterrecords.com/
Tom is both knowledgeable and opinionated in the sound quality of different pressings. He will tell you which to get and which to avoid. He sells records, CDs, etc. mainly through his mail catalog/email and also has an eBay Store (id: humorem). I am quoting this directly from his web site:
"It will be a long time until it is fully functional, and will probably never have more than 5% of the records I sell."
So the best bet with Better Records is for you to get on contact Tom and get on his email/mailing list. (I'm not sure if he sends his catalog overseas but the email version is pretty much the same sans the pics, plus it gets to your much FASTER.)


I've had the same experience with Audiophile International http://www.audiophileusa.com/ as Ronflugelguy's but for not being in John's house. I've got to make the trip to Fair Oaks someday.
Email: thefolks@audiophileusa.com
Phone: (916) 990-9321


Just curious. How is the demand side of the vinyl market like in Ukraine and other CIS? Are there many like-minded record collectors? I guess the supplies are probably limited otherwise you wouldn't have asked, right?

[Sanfi4u]

I also vote for Audiophile International. I'm their permanent client and feel about them exactly the same as Ronflugelguy does. John is always responsive and supportive. Top-notch service.

I tried Red Trumpet couple of times and was quite happy with their service too. Have no doubt contacting them. Quite possibly the best online shop on the web.

Originally posted by Paul Chang

Just curious. How is the demand side of the vinyl market like in Ukraine and other CIS? Are there many like-minded record collectors? I guess the supplies are probably limited otherwise you wouldn't have asked, right?

I can't comment the situation in Ukraine, but in Moscow we have quite a number of vinyl collectors, couple of local suppliers. I buy half of my LPs locally. But supplies for sure is not equal to the one you have in US.

If I might, an advice for SVL. Why don't you have yourself a dedicated card for online transactions only? Update your account right before you pay. This strategy will minimise your risk and will give you more flexibility and conveniences, more suppliers you can address to and less extra money compared to Western Union, for example. Hope this helps.

[Andy]

SVL,


Have you ever tried looking through GEMM? You might find somebody closer to home.

[Paul Chang]

Originally posted by Sanfi4u
If I might, an advice for SVL. Why don't you have yourself a dedicated card for online transactions only? Update your account right before you pay. This strategy will minimise your risk and will give you more flexibility and conveniences, more suppliers you can address to and less extra money compared to Western Union, for example. Hope this helps.

You can provide your credit card information over the phone to the aforementioned well established reputable mail order stores for your first transaction, if your phone line is secure. Don't make your selections on the phone to save the toll charge.

Once they have your credit card on file, you don't need to provide them again for future orders until it expires or you change card. Make sure all your credit cards authorize transactions only with the same billing & shipping addresses. You don't want somebody to change your shipping address then charge the records to your credit card on file.

So far I have only dealed with Red Trumpet through web. Audiophile International only started web based ordering recently and Better Records' doesn't have such function yet so I placed my orders with these two by phone and email. Never send your credit card information by email!

Happy vinyl hunting! :)

[Sanfi4u]

Originally posted by Andy
SVL,
Have you ever tried looking through GEMM? You might find somebody closer to home.

If I may share my opinion - Yes, there are closer services. In UK and Germany, for example. LPs cost is higher, but you pay less for shipping. So, you get the same total in result. And US suppliers provide excellent quality of service. For me it's the highest priority.

SVL, what do you think?

[Andy]

On the subject of European suppliers, and LPs I’ve always wondered why European imports were never shrink-wrapped. It’s enough to make you go hhhhmmmm.

[petzi]

Originally posted by Andy
On the subject of European suppliers, and LPs I’ve always wondered why European imports were never shrink-wrapped. It’s enough to make you go hhhhmmmm.

I have not made the experience that suppliers of audiophile LPs and CDs expedite their merchandise without shrink wrap. But:

On one hand, a product that is not shrink wrapped can still be a new, unused product.

On the other hand, a shrink wrapped item can be used, because shrink wrapping merchandise is not rocket science, but rather a day-to-day action perfomed by thousands of businesses everywhere. All you need is a suitable machine (not too expensive).

[Paul Chang]

On the subject of shrink wrap, my late father, may God bless his soul, told me about his record shopping experience in D.C. and NYC in the 1950's. Records were not sealed and stores would let customers audition before making the purchase. I don't know either the manufactures didn't shrink wrap the records or the stores unwrapped them.

In the 1980's, Japanese imports were not all shrink wrapped, either. All made by CBS/SONY, my Pink Floyd: The Wall was sealed but all my Mountain records came in semi-clear loose plastic sleeves. All my Pioneer/Warner Bros. LP's were sold in unsealed loose bags, too. Some importers/distributors/retailers sealed the records themselves, though.

I suspect that in the beginning nobody bothered to seal the records. Due to the (most) liberal (in the world) return policy in the USA, a great number of records got returned and resold as new ones, let alone the in store audition copies. Customers started complaining so record companies resorted to shrink wrapping. Europe and Japan might not have similar issues.

Petzi was right on about resealing records. Do you remember the "FACTORY SEALED FOR YOUR PROTECTION" sticker label pasted around the opening edge of a record? Too many resealed used (M-, VG+, VG-...?) records sneaked through as "new"? Not that making such stickers is rocket science, either. :)

Did I make any sense? Does your experience or the legends passed down in your family say otherwise?

[SVL]

Originally posted by Paul Chang
Just curious. How is the demand side of the vinyl market like in Ukraine and other CIS? Are there many like-minded record collectors? I guess the supplies are probably limited otherwise you wouldn't have asked, right?

Thanks for the links; I've been to most of those websites, drooling:). It's probably time to give them a try.

The demand in Ukraine, and I would assume in other FSU (former Soviet Union, CIS, whatever) is rather limited. An average consumer would listen to CDs, which they can get plenty. Most titles would be out on CD about as soon as they are released in Europe or the US (or sometimes sooner, actually:)), and would cost you a fraction of the price in the US ($3-5 on the average). This is pirated stuff, of course, often with a noticeable difference in sound quality. I'm getting off track here...

While I do know at least 20 to 40 people who care about vinyl, most consumers don't. Hence there is very little supply, even for new releases and reissues, because most importers would not be interested in small orders.

Old vinyl is rather hard to find in general, and old vinyl in good condition is extremely rare. This stems out of historic reasons, I would assume - very few people had the opportunity and/or resources to buy those things in the 60s through the 80s.

[Metralla]

If you do buy a shrink-wrapped record, remove the wrap immediately. You don't want the tension from the shrink-wrap warping your vinyl.

I remember buying records in Australia in the mid-sixties and then came to Washington DC for a couple of years. That was the first time I saw shrink-wrapped records. When I went back to Australia there was still no shrink wrap.

I started buying Mobile Fidelity LPs and Japanese pressings and these were wrapped. The first I saw in Oz.

Regards,
Metralla

[SVL]

Originally posted by Sanfi4u
Why don't you have yourself a dedicated card for online transactions only? Update your account right before you pay. This strategy will minimise your risk and will give you more flexibility and conveniences, more suppliers you can address to and less extra money compared to Western Union, for example. Hope this helps.

Probably should try that; might not make a big difference in terms of cost, but would surely let me reach out to more suppliers through the Internet.

Sanfi4u, could you tell me what the average delivery time was for those orders, and what method were you using - surface, air, a courier service? Just to give me an idea, if you can; thx in advance.

Is it true they are thinking about, or actually doing something to start pressing modern vinyl LPs in Aprelevka? I remember reading something about that on the Audio Zone board.

[SVL]

Originally posted by Andy
SVL,

Have you ever tried looking through GEMM? You might find somebody closer to home.

Originally posted by Sanfi4u


If I may share my opinion - Yes, there are closer services. In UK and Germany, for example. LPs cost is higher, but you pay less for shipping. So, you get the same total in result. And US suppliers provide excellent quality of service. For me it's the highest priority.

SVL, what do you think?

I looked at a few of those (Germany, the Netherlands and the UK), and LP prices are generally higher, probably because the number of pressings was originally lower than in the US. I still have to compare the combined cost for various dealers in Europe and the US.

I recently got a bunch of cheap LPs from Canada (my cost here was US$5-7 on the average), of which about two thirds were quite decent, also in listening terms. I did have to wait about a month and a half to get them because I had chosen the lowest cost delivery method. Ever the cheapskate:).

[petzi]

Originally posted by Metralla
If you do buy a shrink-wrapped record, remove the wrap immediately. You don't want the tension from the shrink-wrap warping your vinyl.
...
I started buying Mobile Fidelity LPs and Japanese pressings and these were wrapped. The first I saw in Oz.

Regards,
Metralla

Yeah, but Mofi LPs were sealed in a rather loose plastic bag, so no danger of warping.

[petzi]

Originally posted by Paul Chang
...Too many resealed used (M-, VG+, VG-...?) records sneaked through as "new"? ...

One can get an idea of whether a record is used by looking at the paper sticker, very near the hole of the record. Most people don´t "find" the hole at the first attempt when they put the record on the turntable. They rather touch the pin in the middle of the turntable with the record´s paper sticker, then move their way to the hole until the pin comes out. That often leaves markings on the paper, curved lines towards the hole, which can be seen under certain light conditions. So when you see that, you know at least that the record has been put on a turntable. Usually that means it has been played :)

Note that some used record merchants play every record offered to them for a moment, so they can determine if it "plays" like a new or used record. So a new record that went through the hands of a used record merchant can become a used one, even though it has been played for a few seconds only.

[Paul Chang]

Petzi,

But we can't see a record's label (what you call paper sticker) if it's sealed. My point was that resealing was more than likely what brought about the "FACTORY SEALED" sticker.

[Sanfi4u]

Originally posted by SVL
Probably should try that; might not make a big difference in terms of cost, but would surely let me reach out to more suppliers through the Internet.
An example. Let's assume you buy a set of LPs for less than $100 from eBay seller. Your extra charge will be $5 (you use a card via Bidpay) or $15 (Western Union service cost). In case of Money Order you pay $10-30 extra to the bank, at least, in Moscow (assuming seller pays nothing). It may really make sense if you often buy online.

Originally posted by SVL
Sanfi4u, could you tell me what the average delivery time was for those orders, and what method were you using - surface, air, a courier service? Just to give me an idea, if you can; thx in advance.
I usually buy from US suppliers directly or via Ebay. I ask them to use either Air Mail Letter Post or Air Mail Parcel Post. I try to stay away of the surface post - too long and unregistered. Here is my experience: the fastest delivery - 7 days; regular term - 2-3 weeks; the longest delivery - 2.5 months. Once occasionally LPs were send by surface mail. It took 2 months for the parcel to reach me.

Originally posted by SVL
Is it true they are thinking about, or actually doing something to start pressing modern vinyl LPs in Aprelevka? I remember reading something about that on the Audio Zone board.
I have heard something similar. But I don't think there is a market for them. Actually I don't care too much. I'm mostly interested in old vinyl.

[Sanfi4u]

Originally posted by Metralla
If you do buy a shrink-wrapped record, remove the wrap immediately. You don't want the tension from the shrink-wrap warping your vinyl. This is not the only danger you are faced with the shrink-wrapped vinyl. After years of storage, pressed tight with the adjacent LPs, vinyl may get specific white marks on its surface. They can hardly be washed out and in worst cases they deteriorate the sound. Yes, there is also a good chance to get it warped. These are two reasons I take shrink-wrap off as soon as I get myself a new or used LP.

[Paul Chang]

Originally posted by Sanfi4u
After years of storage, pressed tight with the adjacent LPs, vinyl may get specific white marks on its surface. They can hardly be washed out and in worst cases they deteriorate the sound.
Do the white marks on vinyl come from robbing against the paper inner sleeve? Why do they have anything to do with the shrink wrap? Do you use after "rice paper" inner sleeves, such as Nagaoka No. 102 or Discwasher VRP? Here is the thread on sleeves that I started with my first post on this forum:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=291

Some collectors consider the shrink wraps part of the total package and don't throw them away. I don't either, but make sure to get them loose, e.g. by slitting open the top edge. I think you should at least keep the ones with color or special sticker labels, such as Pink Floyd: Wish You Were Here, Rolling Stones: Dirty Work (you only see Work through the red shrink wrap).

We are drifting off topic here. Shall we start a thread on shrink wraps? :D

[Sanfi4u]

Originally posted by Paul Chang

Do the white marks on vinyl come from robbing against the paper inner sleeve? Why do they have anything to do with the shrink wrap? Do you use after "rice paper" inner sleeves, such as Nagaoka No. 102 or Discwasher VRP? Here is the thread on sleeves that I started with my first post on this forum:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=291Rubbing against the paper inner sleeve is a different animal. When you keep shrink-wrapped LP pressed by others for many years (really long period - 10-15 years) sometimes the film diffuse into vinyl and both hard cover and inner sleeve do not preserve it. The marks have a special look. You need to see it once and you'll easily tell them from other kind of marks. Sometimes you see the process just started, you can locate just hints of marks that really do not influence the sound. But sometimes it's a real problem. I've lost 2-3 older records this way.

Yes, I use "rice paper" inner sleeves, but not always. It depends on the condition of original inner sleeve. The records I've lost were in their original inner sleeves. I can't tell you does "rice paper" help or not. I don't have this experience.

Originally posted by Paul Chang
Some collectors consider the shrink wraps part of the total package and don't throw them away. I don't either, but make sure to get them loose, e.g. by slitting open the top edge. I think you should at least keep the ones with color or special sticker labels, such as Pink Floyd: Wish You Were Here, Rolling Stones: Dirty Work (you only see Work through the red shrink wrap).I used to keep records in original shrink wrap many years before I noticed the problem. My experience says only thin white film can be dangerous. I take it off keeping all special sticker labels with the record. Pink Floyd WYWH has a thicker wrap. I keep it as it is and it is still in a safe condition with no special marks on vinyl up to now (I knock on the wood).

Originally posted by Paul Chang
We are drifting off topic here. Shall we start a thread on shrink wraps? :D Yes, we're pretty far away now. So, I stop here. If you'd like to discuss the topic in more details - let's move to a new thread. I hope the info above may help you to preserve the records.