Does more power=more bass and punch??

[audio]

I've just purchased a new set of speakers (4ohm, 90db efficient, freq 40-20K). They are more refined, so they are not as boomy as my Monitor Audios were. This is fine by me, but sometimes the bass on the new ones seems a little too lean. I am running a 40wpc integrated amp and may be getting my 25wpc tube integrated amp soon. Is there any reason to go for more power to improve the bass? In other words, will a more powerful amplifier generally result in better bass and more heft and punch??

[Claus]

Yes!!!

[PMC7027]

What you should really look for a an amplifier with a high damping factor. High damping factor indicates that the amp will have good control of the woofer.

[Grant]

That amp is hurting your sound, and is actually more dangerous to your speakers at higher levels. Get a more powerful one.

[audio]

Originally posted by Grant
That amp is hurting your sound, and is actually more dangerous to your speakers at higher levels. Get a more powerful one.

Which amp are you speaking of? The 40wpc ss or the 25wpc tube amp?

[audio]

My speakers have a 90w power handling capacity. If my integrated amp is 40wpc into 8 ohms, it will be 80 wpc into 4 ohms, right? If so, would going for 10 more wpc make that much of a difference?

[Ron Stone]

Somtimes more power means a more controlled, taut bass, which can be be perceived as less bass at first.

I guess you could drop a friend's higher-powered amp in and see what happens. Be sure to adjust for equal volume levels when comparing components; otherwise the louder component will almost always sound "better."

And to throw another monkey-wrench in the simple answer, I've heard lower-powered amps grab a woofer with a lot more authority than the much higher-powered amp they replaced. Something about "Class A" operation or something; perhaps this is the "damping factor" mentioned earlier in the thread?

[Grant]

Originally posted by prix


Which amp are you speaking of? The 40wpc ss or the 25wpc tube amp?

40

[audio]

Originally posted by Grant


40


So you think the 25wpc tube amp is okay??

[Grant]

Never heard it...

[RDK]

Let's not get too caught up in the wattage game. There's a lot more to it than just sheer horsepower. I'm driving my primary music system with a 2 watt SET tube amp and 92 db speakers and the results are better than i could ever have imagined.

[AudioEnz]

Originally posted by prix
Is there any reason to go for more power to improve the bass? In other words, will a more powerful amplifier generally result in better bass and more heft and punch??

Prix,
as a general rule, the bigger the power supply the more power, punch and authority you'll find in the bass.

So how do you tell a bigger power supply? Try lifting the amp! Good power supplies require a hefty transformer and large smoothing caps - things that can't be miniturised. ("Trick" power supplies like in the Linn amps excluded). The power rating itself is not the most important thing here.

Prix, how about telling us what the amps and speakers are. We may then be able to give you some more intelligent answers.

[Vinyl-Addict]

My speakers have a 90w power handling capacity. If my integrated amp is 40wpc into 8 ohms, it will be 80 wpc into 4 ohms, right? If so, would going for 10 more wpc make that much of a difference?

Prix, I seriously doubt that your integrated doubles the power output at 4ohms. Check your owners manual to be sure.
On bass output, I agree that more power is better but in my experience this really becomes apparant in larger woofers,(8"min). I am powering my N804's with 200wts SS power. They don't produce lots of low bass even with this amount of power, however it is clean and tight, well controlled bass. A good subwoofer coupled with an EQ takes care of the rest. :)

[Casino]

Prix, Vinyl-Addict is on track. While a few amps may double output at 4 ohms vs. 8, most will not (in fact, the majority of the better ones will not). It all depends upon the amp's design. My last amp, for example did 75 watts into 8 ohms, and 100 into 4. The amp I'm using now delivers 200 watts per channel into 8, 4 or 2 ohms.

[Dave]

prix,

Sounds to me like you are experiencing the same thing that I first had happen when I upgraded my speakers from 75W Definitive Technology BP-10's to Castle Acoustics: Conway II's 50W.

The bass seems to be lacking but yet still present. After a period of about one month of listening to well mastered CD's I noticed that I started to prefer the tighter/softer bass drum sounds of the lower wattage speakers and the old speakers just sounded a bit too bloated and not as well defined, along with the treble being a tad harsh.

Give your ears a chance to adjust to your ever evolving, well at least over the last while anyways:D, system. Then you'll have better understanding.:) Just MHO.

[audio]

Originally posted by Dave
prix,

Sounds to me like you are experiencing the same thing that I first had happen when I upgraded my speakers from 75W Definitive Technology BP-10's to Castle Acoustics: Conway II's 50W.

The bass seems to be lacking but yet still present. After a period of about one month of listening to well mastered CD's I noticed that I started to prefer the tighter/softer bass drum sounds of the lower wattage speakers and the old speakers just sounded a bit too bloated and not as well defined, along with the treble being a tad harsh.

Give your ears a chance to adjust to your ever evolving, well at least over the last while anyways:D, system. Then you'll have better understanding.:) Just MHO.


Yes, that sounds exactly like my old speakers. Bloated and harsh. However, these new speakers are seriously lacking in the bass dept. The music has no guts anymore and I can't live with it. It's startling how little bass there is, and they're rated down to 40Hz. They're gone, Dave. I can't deal.

[Wired]

Halfing the ohms means that there is the potional for twice the current to flow through the speaker system, however the amp will usually only put out a small amount of extra power unless it is a high current amp with a large power supply. Class A amps have the transistors constantly working so they run hotter. However most amp just swicth the transistors so that they do not run as hot and have more power. And finally, the damping factor is not realy a good indication of how well an amp can control a woofer, it is just another basically usless spec.

[Dave]

Originally posted by prix



Yes, that sounds exactly like my old speakers. Bloated and harsh. However, these new speakers are seriously lacking in the bass dept. The music has no guts anymore and I can't live with it. It's startling how little bass there is, and they're rated down to 40Hz. They're gone, Dave. I can't deal.
Perhaps try an album where there is a really low bass note, such as the first pressing of The Wall. This way you will see what bass response you really have as opposed to what you are currently used to.

Give your ears a chance prix. Patience is the key here.;) It's just like breaking a bad habit, it takes some time, but the rewards are well worth it. Oh yeah, forgot to mention..........a little added volume will help with this process.

[Richard Feirstein]

The laws of physics controls this situation. The reproduction of truly low frequencies with low distortion, at high levels, takes a lot of energy. If your speakers are designed to actually reproduce very low frequencies (50 Hz and down to 20 Hz on a good day) you will need a lot of power. Most speakers that are efficient achieve that by not reproducing very low frequencies. Yet today's ported designs are a good choice for relatively good frequency responce and efficiency. A design like the AR-3a would benefit from a 200 watt amp, a decent ported design might get away with perhaps 20 watts. Best is an efficient design limited in the low end. combined with a powered sub.

Richard.

[Dave]

prix,

Are you running a two-channel audiophile system or a multi-channel? My guess is that you're running a two-channel audiophile system from your tube-talk.

This is a bit of a problem when asking these generalized-type questions as you can tell from member response. I'm approaching it from the audiophile set-up position where we don't need no sub-woofers for any added bass ambiance because if the bass in on the recording to begin with, it will come out properly.

[Vinyl-Addict]

Another issue to address is that some speakers are voiced to perform better in certain frequencies than others. Your old speaker design may have offered a mid-bass emphasis and the new ones do not.

I feel your pain because my B&W N804's offer very nice tight bass but do not floor you with the lower frequencies. My room is the biggest problem.
I have to run a sub in my system. I also have to run a x-over with the sub because of placement. I highly recommend you play with placement and think about integrating a sub. I would also try to run some test tones with a Radio Shack SPL meter to find out how your room is affecting things.

I am getting closer to the sound that makes me happy but it takes time, and patience. Good luck.:)

[HeavyDistortion]

Prix,

If you have really efficient speakers, then a 25 wpc tube amp should drive them easily, and give you the bass that you crave. I can tell you that my Scott 299-D, which is approximately 35 wpc, gives me a better and deeper bass sound then my Krell 150 wpc solid state amplifier did, even at lower volume levels, which I think is very important. Of course, the Klipsch Cornwall speakers are very efficient speakers with 15 " woofers, and seem to be an excellent match for the Scott 299-D.




Ed Hurdle
HeavyDistortion

[audio]

Originally posted by Dave
prix,

Are you running a two-channel audiophile system or a multi-channel? My guess is that you're running a two-channel audiophile system from your tube-talk.

This is a bit of a problem when asking these generalized-type questions as you can tell from member response. I'm approaching it from the audiophile set-up position where we don't need no sub-woofers for any added bass ambiance because if the bass in on the recording to begin with, it will come out properly.


Yeah, strictly two channel. Check my profile for the gear list. I'm the last guy on the planet who will purchase a sub-woofer. Not in anybody's wildest dreams will surround sound ever touch my stereo.

[Vinyl-Addict]

Prix, a subwoofer, when integrated 'properly' works very well in a stereo system. Placing a subwoofer into your 2 channel setup does'nt turn it into a surround system. A center channel speaker and rear surround speakers do that. Most people who have'nt heard a sub setup properly tend to react the same way as you do, if you heard my 2 channel system you would'nt know I had a sub in the same room. A sub is there to pick up where your mains roll off, that's all, nothing more. :)
Rel makes excellent subs that are designed specifically for 2 channel systems, that's what I own. :)

[audio]

Originally posted by Vinyl-Addict
Prix, a subwoofer, when integrated 'properly' works very well in a stereo system. Placing a subwoofer into your 2 channel setup does'nt turn it into a surround system. A center channel speaker and rear surround speakers do that. Most people who have'nt heard a sub setup properly tend to react the same way as you do, if you heard my 2 channel system you would'nt know I had a sub in the same room. A sub is there to pick up where your mains roll off, that's all, nothing more. :)
Rel makes excellent subs that are designed specifically for 2 channel systems, that's what I own. :)

NEVER!:cool: