Moby Grape!!

[Chris M]

How does the Vintage CD compilation sound (with the tacky Haight cover)? Is the first LP on CD anywhere else?

Chris

[czeskleba]

Originally posted by Chris M
How does the Vintage CD compilation sound (with the tacky Haight cover)? Is the first LP on CD anywhere else?

Chris

The Vintage compilation sounds great. Mastered by Bob Irwin, who also did the Sundazed version of Skippy Spence's "Oar" (the finest album of all time, in my opinion). Irwin left count-ins and before-song chatter on some of the trax.... cool stuff. Vintage is excellent... you get all the first album, most of Wow, and all but one track from 69, plus some nice unreleased stuff. Well worth the price.

The first album has also been released by itself on the San Francisco Sounds label, but you should not, I repeat SHOULD NOT buy that thing. Reason one being it sounds like crap... it was not mastered from the master tape. Reason two is that the San Francisco Sounds label is owned by Matthew Katz, the band's former manager. Katz has quite effectively screwed the members of Moby Grape out of ALL the profits from sales of their albums for the past 30 years. If you buy a copy of a CD on the San Francisco Sounds label, the band will not see one red cent from the sale.

Katz is truly a piece of work... he makes Allen Klein look like a philanthropist. He has filed literally hundreds of lawsuits to protect "his" copyrights, and his lawsuit against Sony is the reason the Vintage disc is out of print in the US. Katz is also the reason that the Grape albums have not been reissued by Sony. Check out www.mobygrape.net if you want to find out more about the delightful Mr. Katz and the band's sad history...

[Chris M]

Thanks! That site is great.

Chris

[Ronflugelguy]

Yeah, Katz , I think, really screwed up those reissues , because I don't remember my original "MOBY GRAPE" album lacking so much in bass and sounding so hard!! Both his cds and lps sound ******! also, ther has been an LP issue on scorpio which does not sound much better. Help, anybody seen the Sony compilation or a mint original pressing that has'nt been used to roll a joint on the record itself;;) :p

[njwiv]

I've seen a used copy at Wherehouse Music.

[indy mike]

I have the Sony cd comp, and while the source tapes came from their original producer, the mix for the first album's stereo stuff lacks a lotta slam in the bass department. I guess the producer was being mighty experimental with the sounds, cause I listen to those tracks and think "man, what would it sound like if Terry Melcher were at the controls?" (I know, probably compressed, but the bass sounds he got working with the Paul Revere crew makes me wonder what coulda been for the Moby boys). The mono single mixes included have a lot more drive than their stereo counterparts; I'd also like to find first press vinyl copies and see what they sound like.

[czeskleba]

Originally posted by Ronflugelguy
Help, anybody seen the Sony compilation or a mint original pressing that has'nt been used to roll a joint on the record itself;;) :p

Well, the Vintage compilation is only out-of-print in the US. It's still in-print in Europe, and I guess Canada too. HMV.com has it listed for $19.08 US.

[David Powell]

Mr. Katz has not only screwed up Moby Grape's CD reissue situation, he even screwed them out of the use of group's name for many years.

As Bob Irwin pointed out in the liner notes to the Vintage compilation, producer David Rubinson(?) recorded the background vocals on their first album out-of-phase to achieve that depth of surround effect. This created problems for the mono, as well as the radio single versions, since this effect was cancelled out when not heard in stereo. The Irwin produced compilation restores the spaciousness to the songs from their debut album.

[BradOlson]

This is a lousy case so if I am lucky to find VG or better vinyl or the Vintage compilation, I'll be happy as Katz doesn't deserve the money he is getting. What a bad manager he was.

[Bill]

Vintage is still available as a British import and is well worth seeking out. As others have posted, it's pretty much all you need from the Grape, which is something that everybody needs!

[Ronflugelguy]

By the way, Skip Spence, "oar" highly recomended on sundazed vinyl!!!:)

[czeskleba]

Originally posted by Ronflugelguy
By the way, Skip Spence, "oar" highly recomended on sundazed vinyl!!!:)

Well, if you go with the vinyl you lose out on all the cool bonus trax. "It's the Best Thing for You" is hilarious. The Sundazed CD is, in my opinion, the best album of all time...

[Ronflugelguy]

I've been trying to get my neighbor to buy the CD of "oar"!!!

[czeskleba]

Originally posted by Chris M
How does the Vintage CD compilation sound (with the tacky Haight cover)?

By the way, the "tacky Haight cover" is also Katz's fault. He refused to allow a photo of the band to appear on the cover of Vintage, and he refused to allow any of the original album covers to appear within the CD booklet. Now, it's questionable whether he even has the legal right to deny such authorizations, but Sony figured it was easier to comply with his wishes than pay to defend themselves against the inevitable lawsuit he would file if they defied him.

[David Powell]

I've always been partial to "Moby Grape '69" but unfortunately this is yet another fine album that's never been issued on CD. Even more sad is the fact that, due to the years of Katz litigation, a reissue of this album will probably never see the light of day. Sony more than likely has the original Columbia master but can't put it out under the name Moby Grape. Maybe the surviving group members could do the Prince thing and adopt a grape bunch symbol as a tradename.

[Andrew]

Let us also not forget to mention Mr. Katz's role in keeping the catalog of It's a Beautiful Day in such disarray.

[Ronflugelguy]

I was lucky enough to find an original pressing of It's A Beautiful Day 's debut album for seven dollar in much more than playable condition! Would'nt want to hear what Katz could do to that!!!!:confused:

[BradOlson]

The Katz CD of It's a Beautiful Day's debut doesn't have high quality sound but it isn't bad either.

[Craig]

I got a two disc UK import CD of It's A Beautiful Day and Marrying Maiden a couple of years ago on Sony. The cover art is just plain black with white print and has this explaination: "Due to legal problems we are unable to reproduce the original artwork for either of the albums featured on this double CD. However the music featured on both albums remains unchanged."

I have heard that this was also released as a two-fer, but mine are on separate discs in a double CD jewel box.

Guess what! It's available from HMV.com for $15.13 U.S.

-Craig

[czeskleba]

Originally posted by David Powell
I've always been partial to "Moby Grape '69" but unfortunately this is yet another fine album that's never been issued on CD.
Maybe the surviving group members could do the Prince thing and adopt a grape bunch symbol as a tradename.

Well, Katz alleges not only that he owns the name, but also all the original recordings, so using a different name would not work. In recent years, the band has won some legal battles against him, but Katz keeps appealing and filing new lawsuits. It truly is one of those "it won't get better until he dies" situations. I agree with you about MG '69 being a great album. I actually prefer it to the debut album. Fortunately, all but one of the tracks from '69 are on the Vintage compilation, as is one outtake from those sessions.

[Ronflugelguy]

When Katz released "WOW" on cd he left one strange son goff the cd that was on the original columbia lp. It was called "A foxtrot , just like Gene Autrey"???????? On thr original Lp you had to change the speed on your turntable to 78rpm before it started!:eek:

[David Powell]

Originally posted by Ronflugelguy
When Katz released "WOW" on cd he left one strange son goff the cd that was on the original columbia lp. It was called "A foxtrot , just like Gene Autrey"???????? On thr original Lp you had to change the speed on your turntable to 78rpm before it started!:eek:

Was the second LP of jams (featuring Mike Bloomfield) included on the "WOW" CD?

[mcow1]

I guess I'll have to try that. Is it listed on the label?

[Ronflugelguy]

Yes, everything is one the cd except for that song I mentioned above. But i think I paid over $20 for that Cd and its only one Cd!

[czeskleba]

Originally posted by Ronflugelguy
Yes, everything is one the cd except for that song I mentioned above. But i think I paid over $20 for that Cd and its only one Cd!

Not quite everything else is there. The Wow/Jam CD (which is on Katz's evil San Francisco Sounds label) is missing two songs: "Just Like Gene Autry (a Foxtrot)" and "The Lake". In addition, the 3 jams are all substantially edited down from their original lengths, to the tune of about fifteen minutes total being missing from them cumulatively. What is especially frustrating is that this editing is unneccessary... the Wow/Jam cd is less than 60 minutes long, so it's not like they needed to cut stuff to fit it on CD. In fact, the entire Wow/Jam album *would* fit onto one CD, just barely. And of course, the sound quality on the SF Sounds CD is lousy.

Supposedly the complete Wow album was issued on CD in Japan by Sony. (Just the Wow album, with none of Grape Jam). I haven't heard it and it's now out of print.