Why do females in old movies talk funny?

[JBStephens]

I notice that many female actors in old films, perhaps the WWII era and earlier, deliver their lines with a deliberate quivering tremolo in their voice. Is this something they were taught to do by some acting coach? Perhaps something leftover from when they were stage actors? It's really curious as I've never heard one single female in real life speak in this manner. Thoughts, anyone?

[Steve Hoffman]

Can you be a little more vague?:confused:

[JBStephens]

Can you be a little more vague?:confused:

I'm GleEeEnNdAaAa, The GoOoOd WiIiItch Of The EeEast.

[Steve Hoffman]

Well, she sounds just like Billie Burke to me.

[JBStephens]

You're going to make me hook a VCR into the workstation and record samples, aren't you? :D

[Ere]

Jean Arthur also talked that way, IIRC.

[Scott Strobel]

You mean like Betty Boop?

[The Wanderer]

I know what you mean; I would describe it as a theatrical affectation intended to lend a sense of import.

Of course, the English language and diction back then were more precise and formal and subject to a little more strict interpretation, less slang, I would say.

The first actress that comes to mind is Bette Davis.

Now you can all tell me why I'm wrong.

[JBStephens]

Like this.

http://www.desideratijams.com/deeds.mp3

She sounds like tonearm bounce! An extreme example to be sure, but if you listen in other movies, you'll hear that in many a female actor of the era. The diction standards of the day can be at times amusing - one of the reasons I love cylinder records is to hear that precise Victorian pronunciation.

[Solaris]

I don't hear that so much as I hear an affected theatricality in the diction of actresses in old films, particularly in melodramas. It's something like a slight British accent. The screwball comedies don't have it as much, except in some of the peripheral characters, which is one of the many reasons I like the screwball comedies so much.

In other words, get thee to some Carole Lombard!

[JBStephens]

In other words, get thee to some Carole Lombard!

I listen and obey!

But you rarely, if ever, hear male actors speaking like that. Perhaps females were expected to "emote" more strongly than males, and this manner of delivery was developed to convey to the audience beyond any shadow of a doubt that they were "emoting" properly.

[Gary Warren]

I don't hear that so much as I hear an affected theatricality in the diction of actresses in old films, particularly in melodramas. It's something like a slight British accent. The screwball comedies don't have it as much, except in some of the peripheral characters, which is one of the many reasons I like the screwball comedies so much.


On average, women were far more rigorously 'trained' by the studio system than men. Part of the reason was to keep them busy and out of trouble, part was that they would put up with a lot more studio interference in their lives than the men would, and partly because culturedness was more a part of femininity than masculinity. They didn't want the rough edges of the men worn off, so to speak.

Voice and diction coaches were brought in, many from Britain's upper crust finishing schools.

Men were more coached vocally who were radio personalities than film actors. The ideal for radio men in the 30s was Norman Brokenshire, who today would be laughed at unless the spot was for Grey Poupon Mustard.

Marilyn Monroe says, in what is presented as her writing in the Barris book, (and I think it is authentic) that she was coached in speech by an English tutor and she believed she had a somewhat British accent even though she had never been in England in her life until well after she was a movie star.


Most of the great 30s-50s actresses were better actors than most of their leading men, and the primary reason why, in my opinion, is the difference in training as I mention above. Today, the men and women are equally bad for the most part, but it seems like the women who are really good (e.g.Meryl Streep) seem to get more attention for their craft-quality than the men, equally good, do.

[guy incognito]

I've long noticed the phenomenon JBStephens describes in older (ca. 1930-1960) Hollywood films. There's a good discussion about it I found from this site (http://www.antimoon.com/forum/posts/7153.htm).

What you're talking about is the old Mid-Atlantic WASP accent that was once the lingua franca of the "better" classes of Americans, and which people in the acting profession were encouraged (expected) to adopt under the old studio system. And, yes, it seems female actors were generally given less leeway than their male counterparts...in the same way that women of all types were generally held to far more stringent standards of dress, manners, posture, and decorum in those days than men were.

As somebody on that other site pointed out, some actresses of that era (Bette Davis, Katharine Hepburn, Grace Kelly, etc.) came by that accent "naturally", having been raised in WASPy environments with boarding/finishing schools, etc. For others, the studios drilled it into them.

[jizwood1]

Maybe you are right, I have noticed that also.

[Gary Warren]

What you're talking about is the old Mid-Atlantic WASP accent that was once the lingua franca of the "better" classes of Americans, and which people in the acting profession were encouraged (expected) to adopt under the old studio system. And, yes, it seems female actors were generally given less leeway than their male counterparts...in the same way that women of all types were generally held to far more stringent standards of dress, manners, posture, and decorum in those days than men were.

You hear this in old industrial AV materials. I've got some old training records and the annnouncers are all East Coast WASP types exactly as you describe.

By the way, does anyone else find the modern construction "female actor" awkward, vis-a-vis "actress"? I don't know why but it seems as though the language is being stripped of its feminine forms. I was at the airport the other day and I referred to a nearby woman first officer (to judge from her three stripes on her sleeve) as an "aviatrix". it was as though I had spoken Middle English-no one had ever heard that term before.

[Blencathra]

I watch more B&W movies than colour. The only "odd" way that lines were delivered, to my ears, was the slightly staccato delivery prevalent at the time.

[apileocole]

In other words, get thee to some Carole Lombard!

Or try some Ginger snaps.

(Ginger Rogers)

Or Ingrid Bergman.

(and crank up the hearin' aid ;) ).

I hadn't noticed that particular effectation beyond there having been a more "proper" diction and manner in general.

[John B Good]

I'd also guess at the theatrical element being involved - speaking for the stage.

Some of it is just the times - better diction, a sense of obligation to be cheery and positive.

I'ts too much to hope that the slurring and crudity of today's everyday public speech will someday be thought to be odd. We tend to be unconscious of our own accents.

[John B Good]

I watch more B&W movies than colour. The only "odd" way that lines were delivered, to my ears, was the slightly staccato delivery prevalent at the time.

I love to hear Jennifer Jason Leigh playing Dorothy Parker, or when she played the reporter in that movie about the hula hoop.

[Blencathra]

I'd also guess at the theatrical element being involved - speaking for the stage.

Some of it is just the times - better diction, a sense of obligation to be cheery and positive.

I'ts too much to hope that the slurring and crudity of today's everyday public speech will someday be thought to be odd. We tend to be unconscious of our own accents.

One word - Standards

[JBStephens]

What I'm talking about isn't accents or clipped speech or anything like that, but actresses who impart a rapid "hill and dale" tone to their words when they speak.

http://www.desideratijams.com/baa.mp3

Sounds downright silly, doesn't it? You'll hear that in a lot of old films when you listen for it. It did (thankfully) pass out of fashion. I think the Wanderer nailed it when he described it "as a theatrical affectation intended to lend a sense of import."

[Blencathra]

JB - that's not that common - in fact I've never seen a film where the voice is that accentuated. It does sound like the actress Jean Arthur somewhat.

[Frodis]

Marilyn Monroe says, in what is presented as her writing in the Barris book, (and I think it is authentic) that she was coached in speech by an English tutor and she believed she had a somewhat British accent even though she had never been in England in her life until well after she was a movie star.
.

I wish more people on the TV screen would get coaching. We have a traffic reporter here with a "Cindy Brady" lisp and a terrible habit of saying "do" before everything (ie. as you do go out...as you do travel down this road, etc). If it weren't so early in the morning you could make a drinking game out of it.

It's not correct English at all and yet she can say this up to 4 times in a 2 minute segment! She was a local beauty queen (you can tell that too because she uses her hands like she's Vanna White and she won't turn her head because it'll mess up her hair) so this is how she got on the station to begin with. :mad:

If it weren't for the fact that this station has the best graphic for traffic in the area I would turn it off when she came on.

[reechie]

I wish more people on the TV screen would get coaching. We have a traffic reporter here with a "Cindy Brady" lisp and a terrible habit of saying "do" before everything (ie. as you do go out...as you do travel down this road, etc). If it weren't so early in the morning you could make a drinking game out of it.
Ideally, someone should be taking her aside, and coaching her to break that habit. I was lucky when I was starting out in radio that I had a veteran announcer who liked me, and mentored me out of habits like that.

Who knows though, if someone went up to a beauty queen and told her she wasn't perfect, she might file a harassment report with HR! :rolleyes:

[WaffleHoffle]

Because everyone spoke different back in the day . . . i think of films by Hitchcock (http://filme.hitmeister.de/hitchcock-collection-5-dvds-19471/) - particualry the voice of the characters played by Grace kelly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Kelly) - Dial M for murder (http://uk.rottentomatoes.com/m/dial_m_for_murder/) etc . . . but i think its just that over exagerrated upper class englishness!