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View Full Version : Does anyone have a copy of the original "GODZILLA" (Gojira) without Raymond Burr?


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Steve Hoffman
05-18-2003, 03:51 PM
You know, the way it originally came out in Japan in 1954? I'd love to see it in the original state.

Steve Hoffman
05-18-2003, 06:30 PM
Gosh darn it, no one has the Criterion Collection laser disc of Gojira? Or the Toho Studios CLV laser disc?

I have to buy one of these on eBay? Say it ain't so!

Sckott
05-18-2003, 06:33 PM
http://ebay0.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_017a2ff0bdbe9b293256748065515dbf/i-1.JPG

That LD can be a tough one to find....

mudbone
05-18-2003, 06:38 PM
I didn't even know there was such a version.

mud-

jeff e.
05-18-2003, 06:39 PM
Actually, Criterion never had a chance to release the "Gojira" LD. From what I've read, they weren't happy with the quality of the print they received from Toho. It would have been awesome, though.

I have a bootleg copy with English subtitles on VHS, but it is HORRIBLE. So horrible, in fact, that I could never bring myself to watch it, even though I've been wanting to see it for years. :rolleyes:

Ed Bishop
05-18-2003, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by mudbone
I didn't even know there was such a version.

mud-

Now you know!:laugh: :laugh:

I knew about it, but Iwas more interested in the Kurosawa titles, truth to tell, and it was a pricey import, IIRC. There's a DVD version WITH Raymond Burr, but wouldn't touch that one until I read a positive review, which I don't expect to see.

ED:cool:

mudbone
05-18-2003, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by Ed Bishop


Now you know!:laugh: :laugh:

ED:cool:

Well ED, to me this would be like a Perry Mason episode without Raymond Burr. It does not compute.

mud-:D

Steve Hoffman
05-18-2003, 06:54 PM
Sheesh, get with the program!

http://gojistomp.org/movies/gkingm.html

And:



(By Gary D. Parkosewich, born in 1985).
Below is a research paper I wrote on Godzilla for school. Please understand if there is any plagarism, then it is completely unintentional. I have a list of my sources at the bottom. I apologize too if some of my facts are not straight. If you're curious about what my grade was on this paper, it was a 91. I also added in some pictures to make the paper a little more exciting.



During the post World War II era, several science fiction "B-movies" containing radioactive monsters on the loose were constantly being made in the United States. In 1954, the Japanese motion picture company Toho Company Limited released the movie Gojira. In 1956, Gojira became known to several Americans as Godzilla. As the years passed, Toho released more Godzilla movies, that eventually gained the reputation of cheap science fiction flicks, with the hilarious sight of a man in a rubber suit, attacking a toy city with crowds of Japanese people running, and speaking English out of sync with their mouths (Kalat 1). It seems most Americans today cannot hear the name "Godzilla" without laughing or rolling their eyes, or thinking of the words "cheap" and "cheesy." This evaluation is unfair, and Godzilla should not have the status of a "B-movie" monster. The original Godzilla movie, Gojira, was a dark, allegorical film that provided a reenactment of World War II, addressing concerns of atomic warfare through the eyes of the only country to firsthand experience it.




Director Ishiro Honda purposely made Gojira a reenactment of World War II from the Japanese perspective (Miller, part 3). Honda was a veteran of the Imperial Army, and witnessed the worst firebombings of Tokyo. He also was stunned when he saw the ruins of Hiroshima after the Americans dropped the atomic bomb on the city. The devastation scared him, and Honda wanted to reenact World War II in his film Gojira, to show the roots of atomic warfare and express his fear for the future. He also wanted to make it a standalone movie and "... hoped that the end of Godzilla was going to coincide with the end of nuclear testing" (Honda qtd. in Kalat 36). In the beginning of the movie, Japanese fishing boats are sunk, representing Japan's naval defeats, and merchant marine ships sunk by American submarines, prior to when the U.S. entered the war (Miller, part 3). These scenes also symbolized Japan entering the war with the United States (Roberto, part 2). The Japanese government, in Gojira, hesitated to release the information about the sinkings to the public. The Japanese government during World War II also hesitated to release information about its defeats. Godzilla first attacked land on Odo Island, which represented the islands lost to the U.S. (Miller, part 3). Dr. Yamane, a paleontologist, discovered that Godzilla was resurrected by a Hydrogen bomb test, revealed in later Godzilla movies as the test conducted by the U.S. on the island of Bikini Atoll in 1954. After Yamane discovered this, he aroused a debate on whether the monster should be killed or not. The elderly Yamane wanted to study Godzilla's ability to survive the H-bomb, while others, such as Yamane's daughter Emiko, and her lover, a Coast Guard officer named Hideto Ogata, wanted Godzilla to be killed. This debate represented the Japanese peoples' mixed feelings of war in the 1940's (Roberto, part 4). The military tried to defeat Godzilla with conventional weapons, but the plan did not work. Godzilla moved closer to Japan and attacked the capital, Tokyo. Through all of Godzilla's attacks, his footsteps were heard, imitating the sound of the bombs dropped by Americans during the war (Roberto, part 4). When Godzilla arrived on the mainland, Godzilla spewed an atomic ray from its mouth that destroyed buildings and left radioactive fallout, directly representing the mass destruction caused by atomic weapons (Kalat 15). By this time, the full allegory of Godzilla was revealed. Not only was it an allegory of the war with the U.S., but it was also an allegory of the product of atomic weapons: atomic warfare (Miller, part 1). After Godzilla's second major attack on Tokyo,

a morning landscape scene of the destruction created by Godzilla matched the appearance of Hiroshima and Nagasaki after the atomic bomb was dropped on both cities. A grim hospital scene was then shown, displaying the dead and wounded crowding the building, reflecting what the hospitals were like after the U.S.'s A-bomb attacks (Roberto, part 4). Shots of people shaking their heads and crying also showed a sense of pessimism. That pessimism, though, did not only exist for Japan, but to the whole world (Roberto, part 4). From here, Honda began discussing his fears of nuclear war. After Godzilla's death, a feeling of pessimism still existed, as Dr. Yamane said "I can't believe Godzilla was the only surviving member of its species. If we keep on conducting nuclear tests, it's possible that another Godzilla might appear somewhere in the world, again." Honda included this speech not to hint a sequel, but to offer his message of the danger that existed (Honda qtd. in Kalat 36). Although the threat of atomic warfare ended in the movie, it had not ended in the real world.




Honda further discussed his fears and concerns of a future atomic war through the ill-fated character, Dr. Daisuke Serizawa, and the Oxygen Destroyer, the weapon used to kill Godzilla. The Oxygen Destroyer was a weapon of mass-destruction that disintegrated oxygen in water and dissolved all living matter. Serizawa, shocked by his discovery, planned to keep it a secret until he found a way to transform the device so it would benefit society. Serizawa revealed his secret to his fiance, Emiko, who kept it a secret too, until she wanted to find a way to help after seeing the destruction Godzilla brought. Serizawa's Oxygen Destroyer represented the consequence of atomic warfare (Kalat 20). Since Godzilla was atomic warfare, the latest and most destructive technology, then the only way to defeat it was by using a weapon even more destructive, the Oxygen Destroyer (Kalat 20). Ishiro Honda discussed the debate of whether the atomic bomb should have been used at all, through a debate with Ogata and Serizawa (Roberto 1). Serizawa argued: "if the Oxygen Destroyer is used even once, politicians from around the world will see it. Of course they'll use it as a weapon. Bombs versus bombs, missiles versus missiles, and a new super-weapon to throw upon us all. As a scientist, no, as a human being, I cannot allow that to happen." Ogata pushed Serizawa further, but Serizawa further explained: "humans are weak animals. Even if I burn my notes, the secret will still be in my head. Until I die, how can I be sure I won't be forced by someone to make the device again?" Serizawa was eventually convinced to use his awful weapon after watching a somber television broadcast showing the destruction and weariness of the war against Godzilla. Using a weapon more powerful than an atomic weapon, Godzilla, was the only way to defeat it, otherwise atomic warfare would destroy Japan, and possibly the world (Kalat 15). Serizawa then burned his notes and insisted on planting the device. After he planted the device in the water near Godzilla, Serizawa committed suicide, to ensure that his worst case scenario would not rise.




In 1956, Embassy Pictures released an Americanized version of Gojira in the U.S. called Godzilla, King of the Monsters. This film ignored the messages made in the original. Embassy did not want to release Gojira subtitled because it would only appeal to art-film audiences, which would be unmarketable (Kalat 24). Instead, they released it dubbed, a method infamously known especially in Godzilla movies, to have terrible acting and lips moving out of sync with the dialogue. To make the movie appeal to Americans, scenes were switched around, and twenty minutes of the original footage was cut, and ten minutes of scenes featuring Raymond Burr were cleverly imported between shots (Kalat 24). Major scenes, such as the long debate between Ogata and Serizawa, and Dr. Yamane's warning at the end were cut. The Americanization process also shrunk the characterization. Serizawa appeared to be the stereotypical "mad scientist," which lowered the meaning of his self-sacrifice at the end. Godzilla became a giant pest on the loose instead of an allegory of atomic warfare. The whole island of Japan also depended on the resolve of an arrogant, stodgy, overweight, pedantic American reporter named Steve Martin. His presence almost took on a MacArthur-like father figure whose advise was sought out by even the most brilliant scientific and military minds of Japan, including Dr. Yamane. In the Japanese version, Emiko decides to tell of Serizawa's secret of the Oxygen Destroyer. In the American version, Emiko reveals the secret to Martin, who tells her to convince Serizawa to use the weapon, seemingly making the American look superior. The Japanese version ended pessimistically, but the American version ended optimistically when Martin narrated "... the world could wake up and live again." Steve Martin, an American, seemed to be the only major character who virtually single-handedly saved the besieged island of Japan from almost certain devastation. The American superiority factor that existed in the post-World War II era was clearly shown here. The Americanization that created Godzilla, King of the Monsters had severely damaged the original intent of the movie (Musolf qtd. in MacKinnon, part 2).




Gojira was a deep, dark, allegorical movie about the end of the world (Kalat 13). It was not intended to be anti-American. Its purpose was to teach the dangers of atomic warfare through the past mistakes the world had made, in this case, the U.S. It was a direct experience shared by the only country to have firsthand experienced atomic warfare. As the years passed, Toho shifted Godzilla's symbolism to address other concerns and issues Japan had (Miller, part 1). Tomoyuki Tanaka, the producer of several Godzilla movies, once said that "As long as the arrogance of human beings exist, Godzilla will survive" (Tanaka qtd. in Kalat 148). In the U.S. Godzilla's symbolism was not seen because of the Americanization process. Godzilla movies were passed only to be "cheap," and "cheesy." Godzilla was not this false interpretation. Instead of a "B-movie" monster flick of the post World War II era, the original Japanese Godzilla movie, Gojira, stands in its own category, .

Ed Bishop
05-18-2003, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by mudbone


Well ED, to me this would be like a Perry Mason episode without Raymond Burr. It does not compute.

mud-:D

Hey, Mud: Now you really know!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: A lesson courtesy of the Tonmeister....:)

I'd love to see that original print in all its glory; those stills look gorgeous!:love:

I wonder if our friend Ken McAlinden has a LD of this one....?

ED:cool:

mudbone
05-18-2003, 07:02 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Sheesh, get with the program!

Geez, I hope there's not a test.

mud-:D

mudbone
05-18-2003, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by Ed Bishop


Hey, Mud: Now you really know!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: A lesson courtesy of the Tonmeister....:)

ED:cool:

Hell ED, it looked like one of YOUR posts!!!:laugh:

mud-:D

Jimbo
05-18-2003, 07:04 PM
One of the cable stations (Sci-Fi?) aired the original (w/o Burr) several years ago. Now I wish I'd taped it!

Steve Hoffman
05-18-2003, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by mudbone
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
Sheesh, get with the program!

Geez, I hope there's not a test.



There in fact will be.

mudbone
05-18-2003, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by Steve Hoffman


There in fact will be.

I hope you're grading on a curve these days.

mud-:D

Ed Bishop
05-18-2003, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by Steve Hoffman


There in fact will be.

There you go, Mud....see, being a Gort isn't all it's cracked up to be...now there's a test!:D :laugh: :laugh:

If you're still here tomorrow, it will be presumed you passed. If not, well....
:eek: ;)

ED:cool:

mudbone
05-18-2003, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by Ed Bishop


There you go, Mud....see, being a Gort isn't all it's cracked up to be...now there's a test!:D :laugh: :laugh:

If you're still here tomorrow, it will be presumed you passed. If not, well....
:eek: ;)

ED:cool:

ED, true but the money's good and Steve gives us a lot of sick days.:laugh:

I'll be up all night studying.

mud-:D

Sckott
05-18-2003, 07:15 PM
Some train-chomping magic from Usenet:


There seems to be a fair amount of confusion regarding what exactly is
available as far as Godzilla dvds and what Toho has to do with content in
various versions licenced around the world.

First off, in Japan, Toho is currently releasing about 8 to 10 Godzilla (and
other Toho Sci-fi/monster movies) on dvd per year in a bit of a haphazard
manner. They are of course, region 2 encoded. For the most part, they are
all single disc titles, but are *very* well done with beautiful transfers,
at least 3 optional soundtracks, such as the original, a new DD 5.1 remix
and a commentary track (in Japanese, natch) by people involved in the
original production. The titles also boast trailers, sometimes deleted
and/or alternate scenes (including some English language scenes),
promotional footage, production footage, and other even more isoterical
bonus material. The last 3 Godzilla movies (G 2000, G vs Megaguirus,
Godzilla All Monsters Attack) are 2 dvd and 1 soundtrack cd box sets that
are pretty elaborate, if a bit expensive. Naturally, they are all in the
original Japanese language and Toho does not use English subtitles. They run
about $60 to $75 in US currency depending on who you buy them from. Toho
monster titles available on r2 dvd are:

Godzilla (original 1954 version)
Godzilla Raids Again 1955
The Human Vapor (unconfirmed if it's out)
King Kong vs. Godzilla
Ghidrah, The Three Headed Monster 1964
Frankenstein Conquers the World
War Of The Gargantuas
Godzilla 1984
Godzilla vs. Biollante
Godzilla vs. King Ghidrah
Godzilla vs Mothra (1992)
Godzilla vs MechaGodzilla (1993) *July
Godzilla vs. Space Godzilla *July
Godzilla vs Destroyah *August
Godzilla 2000
Godzilla vs Megaguirus
Godzilla, Ghidrah, Mothra, All Monsters Attack *August

There are some Godzilla titles that are officially licenced releases from
Hong Kong, are Region 3 encoded and are far less expensive to buy and range
in excellent quality to mediocre and are mostly the worst movies of the
series like Godzilla vs Gigan. They are in the Japanese language (and
optional Cantonese) but have optional english subtitles but few if any
extras. There are also some titles from Europe also as bare bones dvds but
some boasting at least widescreen presentations.

In the US, there have been chiefly the ADV and Scimiter (now OOP) releases
and from what I've heard, the new batch coming out soon are simply
repackaged Scimiter versions with poor transfers, bad artifacting and no
extras, including no widescreen presentation. Part of the problem is indeed
whatever issues Toho has licencing anything but bare bones presentations
outside of Japan, no doubt because they don't want import product of their
own movies cutting into sales of R2 dvds in Japan. There was an interesting
ongoing story regarding Godzilla 2000 in which it was going to have the
original cut of the movie in Japanese with English subtitles on one side and
the US dubbed edit on the other side of the dvd but some issues came up
between Toho and Tri Star which prevented this from happening.

T.B.

Steve Hoffman
05-18-2003, 07:26 PM
They don't sell 'em on Amazon!

Sckott
05-18-2003, 07:35 PM
See also:
http://www.cinescape.com/12/Editorial.asp?aff_id=12&this_cat=DVD+Guide#

http://www.dvdverdict.com/columns/dungeon/godzilla.shtml

Steve, minus English S/t that you're not going to hear, maybe a member in Japan can help you out in getting the DVD. Your player has to be region free (or region friendly)....

From what I'm reading, the title is not exported from Japan.

Sckott
05-18-2003, 07:38 PM
Amazon, only in Japan!

http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-/262U5BMZCO3ZF/ref=pd_pym_lm_1/249-4402498-2869114

http://images-jp.amazon.com/images/P/B00005HTF2.09.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

^^ That's the one from what I'm seeing. Region 2 though.

6,000 yen = $56 currently....

Michael
05-18-2003, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by Ed Bishop


Now you know!:laugh: :laugh:

I knew about it, but Iwas more interested in the Kurosawa titles, truth to tell, and it was a pricey import, IIRC. There's a DVD version WITH Raymond Burr, but wouldn't touch that one until I read a positive review, which I don't expect to see.

ED:cool:

Yes ED, miracles do happen..., I guess you missed the semi-positive review and the DVD reissue of GODZILLA FOUR years ago...It's now OOP...You can see the DVD version that I own and I'm happy with it...Unfortunetly it's the Edited American Burr Version...here's a review from a good source..,http://www.thecinemalaser.com/dvd_reviews/godzilla-king-of-the-monsters-dvd.htm

Michael
05-18-2003, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by mudbone


Hell ED, it looked like one of YOUR posts!!!:laugh:

mud-:D


No way Jose'...Looks can be deceiving...Steve's posting has 100% fatual information and no banter.:laugh: ;)

Joseph Kaufman
05-18-2003, 11:24 PM
Steve, I have that Japanese DVD and the earlier Japanese laserdisc. Also a "fan" version that's been fully subtitled.

Steve Hoffman
05-18-2003, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by Joseph Kaufman
Steve, I have that Japanese DVD and the earlier Japanese laserdisc. Also a "fan" version that's been fully subtitled.

Joseph, my new buddy! And you're local too!

Joseph Kaufman
05-18-2003, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by Steve Hoffman


Joseph, my new buddy! And you're local too!

If I can help you in any way, *please* let me know.

Actually I have several of the Japanese DVDs and laserdiscs of the Toho SF films: RODAN (one of the nicest laserdiscs of a 1950s film I've seen), THE MYSTERIANS, THE H-MAN, KING KONG VS. GODZILLA (true stereo sound, much to my surprise), and maybe one or two more I'm blanking on at the moment.