Where is Abel Gance's Napoleon?

[masswriter]

I am patiently waiting for iton DVD . . . :mad:

[Matthew B.]

Copyright disputes are holding that one up, I think. The most complete version of Napoleon is held by the British Film Institute, which claims to hold UK rights, but Universal Studios claims the same thing ... and the Coppola family, allied with Universal, doesn't want it being released without the Carmine Coppola score that was used for the (severely edited) American release back in the 1980s. The BFI prefers an alternate Carl Davis score.

More detail here (http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/film/article398568.ece).

[Steve Hoffman]

That is really a bummer.

Issue it with two scores, two versions, what the heck.

I saw it at the Shrine in 1983 or so, conducted by Carmine Coppola, live. One of the highlights of my life.

[masswriter]

I am surprised, I would assume F.F.C. would be more interested in getting the film out to the public for posterity than stubborn family politics.

[TeacFan]

I saw it at the Shrine in 1983 or so, conducted by Carmine Coppola, live. One of the highlights of my life.
That was jaw dropping..Loved when that Moller Pipe Organ came in.

Francis Ford does it again..(what ever happened to him) ;)

[Dillydipper]

Issue it with two scores, two versions, what the heck.

Wouldn't there still be some p*cker-contest between both factions on which should represent the "definitive" version? "Okay, but I want MY version on Disc One" "Oh, NO! OUR version gets top billing, or I won't sign off on it!"

Get yourselves in a lather, rinse, repeat.

[Steve Hoffman]

I would pretty much leave it up to my all-time film hero Kevin Brownlow. Since he "discovered" the film and has been it's champion since the 1950's, he should decide, yes? If it wasn't for him there would be nothing.

I'd like to hear what Carl Davis did with the movie.

[jupiter8]

My brother saw the version with the Carl Davis score and he liked it much better.

Never a huge fan of the Coppola score myself (it's OK) but I am sure seeing it live would have helped.

Seeing Gance's "La Roue" in a tiny NY screening room with a dozen people was probably the highlight of my film-going life (all 5 hours of it!). It's on DVD now!

Guess I'll hang onto my laserdisc until it rots away:(

[masswriter]

I am also a fan of Gance's Beethoven. The scene where he comes into the waking parlor and plays the Pathetique sonata for the mother of the little dead girl was quite touching. It had all the characteristics lacking in the Gary Oldman/Ed Harris performances.

[harmonica98]

Very frustrating that this is stuck in limbo. I have only seen the Coppola version which I have on Laserdisc and that is magnificent enough. However, my dad saw Carl Davis conduct his version at the Royal Festival Hall a few years ago and he said it was one of the great cultural moments of his life. I had to miss it because I had a bad back at the time, so sitting through 5 hours would have been impossible. I thought at the time, well, it will happen again, but I'm still waiting.

The closing triptych - still one of the most stirring moments in cinema.

Tom

[Steve Hoffman]

The ending triptych is The most stirring moment in cinema to me. Seeing it on this gigantic wide screen at the Shrine in LA (same place they filmed KING KONG in 1933), well, it was a killer (and of course totally unexpected).

[jojopuppyfish]

Yep the dispute is with Coppola.....and its ridiculous.
Word on the street is that the Carl Davis score is amazing.
I saw HALF of it last year at the LACMA...it was great but the room was not air conditioned and it was just too long for me at one sitting.

But it is truly a brilliant film. The snowball fight at the beginning is amazing.

[jojopuppyfish]

http://www.criterionforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1414
Check out the above thread. I think Steve would especially be interested in La Clé du Ciel comments on that thread.

[TeacFan]

Interesting...so what was the original running time when first released in France. This film seems to gain length as its legend grows. Or was this a French "Greed" and never released in the intended form ?

[Matthew B.]

Interesting...so what was the original running time when first released in France. This film seems to gain length as its legend grows. Or was this a French "Greed" and never released in the intended form ?

You should have a look at the criterionforum.org post above — lots of detail there, including rumours that Coppola has dropped his objections and this thing is close to a release. I hope that pans out.

There was never any definitive version of Napoleon. The longest cut during its original release was six and a half hours, but didn't include any triptychs. The Brownlow cut at the BFI is five and a half hours including the final triptych; there's a shorter French cut with a reconstruction of the "Double Storm" triptych absent from the Brownlow.

The Coppola cut that most non-Europeans have seen is only 3h43m. Even back in the '80s this was missing a lot of available footage, and much more has been recovered since then. This shortened, off-speed, cropped, badly-tinted version has been released on DVD in Australia and Spain, if you have a region-capable player ....

[apileocole]

I would pretty much leave it up to my all-time film hero Kevin Brownlow. Since he "discovered" the film and has been it's champion since the 1950's, he should decide, yes? If it wasn't for him there would be nothing.

I'd like to hear what Carl Davis did with the movie.

Speaking of Kevin, is his great Hollywood silent doc series on DVD? I searched a few times but no luck with that title.

[harmonica98]

Speaking of Kevin, is his great Hollywood silent doc series on DVD? I searched a few times but no luck with that title.

No, still not, the rights issues are a nightmare. Every so often we are told that the set is imminent, but still nothing. The LD set still goes for big bucks otherwise I would have it.

Tom

[jojopuppyfish]

Another great thread to look at, with Robert harris stating that there is no rights issue
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/sd-dvd-film-documentary/251039-abel-gances-napoleon-optimum-r2-dvd-coming-may-28th.html#post3326589

[apileocole]

No, still not, the rights issues are a nightmare. Every so often we are told that the set is imminent, but still nothing. The LD set still goes for big bucks otherwise I would have it.

Tom

Thanks Tom. Dagnabbit, that's a treasure which I would think rights holders would pay to be included in and never think of obstructing.

It's not like silent film is going to be increasing in public awareness and interest if they "stick to their guns" for more money and legal posturing. Almost everyone, and still more all the time, would just as soon they can keep their guns. They already have enough gunpowder...