Vintage Tube Amps

[audio]

I just read some comments on the Scott 299 D and the person described it as being like most vintage tube amps, "dark sounding with tubby bass". Is this what I can expect sonically from vintage tube amps in general? I would like to find out as I continue my search for a nice one.

[Steve Hoffman]

The 299 isn't an amp, it's a low power integrated. The best vintage tube amp out there that does NOT have bass sag or a dark sound is a Marantz 8B. It's a bitchin' amp and I use mine every day.


http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/0008b.html

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[Steve Hoffman]

Here 'tis:

[Ronflugelguy]

Steve, what does this one do so well ?

[Steve Hoffman]

The bass isn't tubby, it's dynamic. Some people love that (I do mostly).

BUT, the tradeoff is it doesn't have the Mac 30/240 midrange.

I'm lucky enough to have both the Marantz and the Mac 30's. If I had to choose just one? I don't know. It would depend on what speakers I was trying to drive I guess.

[Dave]

Curiously Steve, what speakers do you run with each?

[audio]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman
The 299 isn't an amp, it's a low power integrated. The best vintage tube amp out there that does NOT have bass sag or a dark sound is a Marantz 8B. It's a bitchin' amp and I use mine every day.


http://www.classic-audio.com/marantz/0008b.html

Scroll down for picture

So the "dark and tubby" thing is generally true for older tube integrated amps then? Also, the Scott 299 D is 34 wpc, while your Marantz is 35 wpc. That's not all that much more powerful than the Scott, but I assume it's made better? I wish I could afford to buy Marantz or McIntosh. If I was going to choose, Steve, between a tube cd player, a tube preamp/solid state power amp, or a solid state pre and tube power, what do you think would offer the most sonic improvement?

[HeavyDistortion]

I have owned my Scott 299-D for about two weeks, and I love the sound that I am getting. Keep in mind that this is my first tube amplifier, but I love the bass sound that I get. It sounds different than solid state bass to my ears, much more realistic and smooth sounding, as if the bass player's amplifier is in the room with you. If you've ever played in a band situation with a bass player, you'll probably understand what I mean. Anyway, the Scott sounds very smooth and warm, with no harshness at all. No more ear fatique, thanks to Charlie Kittleson of Vacuum Tube Valley, and Grover's interconnects. I highly recommend the Scott 299-D, especially as an excellent way to be introduced to the tube world. If I am not mistaken, in it's time, the Scott 299 series of intergrated tube amplifiers were Scott's top of the line model.




Ed Hurdle
HeavyDistortion

[Cafe Jeff]

Quality vintage tube amps with decent iron, if properly refurbished, don't sound vintage at all. (Vintage pre-amps, which were made to allow eq, different record curves and the rest, can be a different matter.) I think that Vintage sound people talk about is inadequate iron, out of spec components, and sagging tubes. Jeff

[Steve Hoffman]

Originally posted by prix


So the "dark and tubby" thing is generally true for older tube integrated amps then? Also, the Scott 299 D is 34 wpc, while your Marantz is 35 wpc. That's not all that much more powerful than the Scott, but I assume it's made better? I wish I could afford to buy Marantz or McIntosh. If I was going to choose, Steve, between a tube cd player, a tube preamp/solid state power amp, or a solid state pre and tube power, what do you think would offer the most sonic improvement?

The power is very close but the sound isn't, if you get my meaning. The Scott is fine, as are Fisher receivers, but if you want to ROCK (as you like to mention), and you want vintage, a Mac or Marantz is pretty much it. You can turn those suckers up LOUD, I mean REALLY LOUD and they just start to sound better and better. It's uncanny-----It's also bad for your ears...Sigh.

[Cafe Jeff]

Steve,
What modern tube amplifers do you think will rock in the way the old Vintage Mac or Marantz's will? Unhappily, I have not ever had the opportunity to hear vintage Macs of Marantz's on song and Rocking out is not something my Leaks do with particular aplomb. Jeff

[Steve Hoffman]

Originally posted by Cafe Jeff
Steve,
What modern tube amplifers do you think will rock in the way the old Vintage Mac or Marantz's will? Unhappily, I have not ever had the opportunity to hear vintage Macs of Marantz's on song and Rocking out is not something my Leaks do with particular aplomb. Jeff

Well, it depends on the speaker used. Not many modern tube amps will rock, but this is something I don't care about so I've never really investigated this aspect. I just want an amp to be good with all kinds of music. It doesn't have to go particularly loud, but it has to be true (if you know what I mean).

[Steve Hoffman]

Originally posted by Dave
Curiously Steve, what speakers do you run with each?

I have both Marantz and Mac in the same cabinet and I can switch back and forth at will:

[Steve Hoffman]

And I use my Tannoy Lancasters with both:

[Cafe Jeff]

That's a beautiful system Steve. And your system raises an interesting question.
In my experience of modern tube amplification, none can really rock out satisfactorily. Many play Lisa Ekdahl superbly, but when push comes to shove, Led Zeppelin on these amplifiers often sounds like Plant and the boys are wearing smoking jackets and slippers.
What technically gives an amp an ability to rock? Jeff

(I'll have to take a picture of my hi fi for the forum: Garrard, Leak, and Tannoy.)

[Dan C]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman


I have both Marantz and Mac in the same cabinet and I can switch back and forth at will:

I never get tired of looking at this system. :love: It must sound as good or better than it even looks.

Dan C

[Dave]

Steve, your photo brings up a question I've long wondered the answer to. It's ok to use a tube amp in a confined space such as your set-up? I was always under the impression they would get waaay too hot.

[aashton]

Steve,

I see that you are heavily into tweaks - it looks like you have the analogue equivalent of the Tice clock on the right hand equipment cabinet. I note that the Tannoy on the right also seems to have some ceramic version of the Shun Mook system resting on it whilst the left hand equipment cabinet has some type of multi-element ozone creating organic resonance damping device. The item that baffles me is the device to the left - I have looked through all the learned journals and searched on the World Wide Web but found no information as to what beneficial effects it brings to audio reproduction. Please tell ;) :D

All the best - Andrew

[Jeffrey]

Originally posted by aashton
Steve,

Please tell ;) :D

All the best - Andrew

Hi Andrew,

No need to bother the Tonmeister........ i have one i can sell ya for a mere $300! I call that a bargain... the best there ever was......

-Jeffrey :D

[Tony Plachy]

Originally posted by Cafe Jeff
Steve,
What modern tube amplifers do you think will rock in the way the old Vintage Mac or Marantz's will? Unhappily, I have not ever had the opportunity to hear vintage Macs of Marantz's on song and Rocking out is not something my Leaks do with particular aplomb. Jeff

Jeff, I have only heard vintage Mac's once and that was a long time ago, I cannot remember the speakers for sure. I'm not sure if all the folks on this thread will agree with me, but I have cj P12's playing into Virgo III's, and while I would like a bit more bass, I think they rock.

[Steve Hoffman]

Originally posted by Dave
Steve, your photo brings up a question I've long wondered the answer to. It's ok to use a tube amp in a confined space such as your set-up? I was always under the impression they would get waaay too hot.

Oh, I open the doors and leave them open when I play the system(s). Plenty of air that way...

[HeavyDistortion]

I'm sure that the Marantz and Macs can rock hard if necessary, but I'm happy with the way my Scott 299-D can rock out also. The first Black Sabbath and Van Halen CDs sound incredible through the Cornwalls. I'm guessing that this is possible because the Cornwalls are very efficient speakers and can easily be driven hard by the output from the Scott. I can say that the Scott does sound better, and never overly bright or harsh, as the volume is increased. However, I don't listen to music as loud as I used to, and I seem to enjoy it more. It's more even sounding, if that makes any sense.




Ed Hurdle
HeavyDistortion

[Steve Hoffman]

Ed, remember when you drive that 299 hard, you are basically turning it into a tube compressor. It sounds good, but it can indeed be harmful to the ears, even at a medium loud volume. Tube clipping is always pleasant to listen to, but it IS clipping.

[HeavyDistortion]

Steve,

Thanks for the reminder, but these days I don't listen to music very loud. The Scott also sounds decent at a lower playing volume. Your comment about tube compression reminds me of why my tube guitar amps sound better at higher volumes; of course I am also aware that this is not good for the ears either; I just wish the other guitarists that I play with understood this.:D




Ed Hurdle
HeavyDistortion

[audio]

Originally posted by Steve Hoffman


I have both Marantz and Mac in the same cabinet and I can switch back and forth at will:

Steve, those glass doors must murder your soundstage????