VPI Record Cleaner question

[vex]

I know we have a few VPI record cleaner owners here. I just bought a HW-17F and I am loving it! However, I do have one concern. It involves the threaded "clamp" (for lack of a better term) used to secure the record to the platter. I have a real problem screwing down something onto the record that causes friction (and inevitable wear) on the record label. Also, when I loosen it, it has a tendency to slip out of my hands as it comes spinning off the spindle thread. So far I've managed to catch it but I can see where it could easily go rolling across the vinyl. Not a pleasent thought.

In any event, is there an alternative to using the stock "clamp"? I'd like to use a proper record clamp, but I'm unsure if such a device would work on the VPI's threaded spindle.

[Ronflugelguy]

Hi Vex, I have a 16.5.Wow, you have a 17F, the one that will clean in reverse also! After a while you WILL get used to handling the the threaded clamp. its just a bit hard to get used to. Its the same kind top nut that comes with the standard JR table clamp.

[mikelakers]

Originally posted by vex
I have a real problem screwing down something onto the record that causes friction (and inevitable wear) on the record label.

I got tire of record not properly tighten down I used my backup clamp(Sota reflex clamp, not cheap, $125 but since it was just sitting, why not).
You have to really play with it for a while to get use to it.

Also, when I loosen it, it has a tendency to slip out of my hands as it comes spinning off the spindle thread. So far I've managed to catch it but I can see where it could easily go rolling across the vinyl. Not a pleasent thought.[/QUOTE]

Did you stop the spinning motor when you do this? this should not be a problem?

[teaser5]

Curious:
Are you guys using the VPI cleaning solution, Disc Doc or something else?
Thanks!
Norm

[vex]

Thanks for the responses.

Mike, when you say "you have to play with it to get used to it", do you mean the Sota reflex clamp? I might consider going that route unless it is too fussy. I want something that goes on and comes off without much hassle.

Also, I am not removing the "top nut" (better term, thanks Ron) while the motor is still spinning. What I'm talking about is that since the spindle thread is so long, it takes a bit of time to tighten down and loosen the top nut. I guess I'm a bit impatient, cuz when I loosen it, I have a tendency to "spin" it off very quickly, this can cause it to come flying off the the spindle thread, and if I'm not paying attention, well... I just need to learn to be more patient. Patience my ***, I want a quick release record clamp instead of this annoying top nut! :agree:

Teaser, since I just bought the machine, so far I've only used the cleaning solution that came with it. I mixed it with 1/4th isopropyl alcohol as the instructions recommended. It seems to work rather well.

[ascot]

Originally posted by teaser5
Curious:
Are you guys using the VPI cleaning solution, Disc Doc or something else?
Thanks!
Norm

I use the Disc Doctor fluid with the VPI 16.5. I do my cleaning by hand and rinse with the machine.

[audio]

Originally posted by teaser5
Curious:
Are you guys using the VPI cleaning solution, Disc Doc or something else?
Thanks!
Norm

I've been using the Disc Doctor system with no cleaning machine. I was in an audiophile shop recently and brought in a few of my records to demo their top of the line VPI machine. Guess what? My hand cleaned records are cleaner. As I see it, the only benefit of a cleaning machine is convenience and the ability to remove the fluid immediately. I always double rinse my lps, so this is not really an issue. Truth be told, if I had the money, I would buy a VPI, just to make things easier. On a budget, though, I gotta stick with the DD and it also seems to produce better results.

[mikelakers]

Originally posted by vex
Thanks for the responses.

Mike, when you say "you have to play with it to get used to it", do you mean the Sota reflex clamp? I might consider going that route unless it is too fussy. I want something that goes on and comes off without much hassle.

Sorry for the confusion Vex. What I mean was, you will get use to the cleaning machine with few more washes.

Reflex clamp is very easy to use, one flick, the clamp comes off, and it is heavy enough it will not go anywhere.

I used Torumat TM-7 record cleaning solution $60/gallon which is alcohol free(I would not recommend alcohol on vinyl), Disc Doctor(www.discdoctor.com) is another option to go to and is probably better(I've never try it myself), highly commended by Tom Port, check out this thread:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=111526#post111526

Have fun cleaning your records, I just cleaned about 20 LPs myself:cool:

[vex]

Thanks for the clarification, Mike. The Sota Reflex Clamp sure sounds nice, but is pretty costly. Before I go that route, I figure I'd search some cheaper alternatives. I found this record clamp on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3022416169&category=3283

I went ahead and bought one. It looks like it will probably work, and even if it doesn't, I'll only be out 15 bucks.

[peter]

I have had the same experience as PRIX. I remove dust with a Hunt brush, then remove more dust with a black disc-washer type dry brush that I have had for 20 years (don't remember who made it--got it in Canada long ago). It removes deep dust (you can see a line of grey with each cleaning). Then, i use an Allsop orbitrac, then a cleaning with LAST brushes and LAST fluid. I too took an LP after I had cleaned it into a shop where a VPI was available and... no difference to the record. My cleaning job was just as effective, though time consuming.

My only problem now is that LAST has changed the white fabric on their brushes to a much rougher fabric! You can feel it with your hands and the brush (with fluid on it) makes a much rougher noise when applied to the vinyl. So, I am using my older LAST brushes which have a smooth velvety fabric applied to them.

I would be interested if anyone has noticed this problem on LAST brushes, and what, if anything, can be done about it.

I also need a recommendation with respect to a deep cleaner, to remove grunge from LP's.

Thank you all again.

[Tony Plachy]

Originally posted by peter
I have had the same experience as PRIX. I remove dust with a Hunt brush, then remove more dust with a black disc-washer type dry brush that I have had for 20 years (don't remember who made it--got it in Canada long ago). It removes deep dust (you can see a line of grey with each cleaning). Then, i use an Allsop orbitrac, then a cleaning with LAST brushes and LAST fluid. I too took an LP after I had cleaned it into a shop where a VPI was available and... no difference to the record. My cleaning job was just as effective, though time consuming.

My only problem now is that LAST has changed the white fabric on their brushes to a much rougher fabric! You can feel it with your hands and the brush (with fluid on it) makes a much rougher noise when applied to the vinyl. So, I am using my older LAST brushes which have a smooth velvety fabric applied to them.

I would be interested if anyone has noticed this problem on LAST brushes, and what, if anything, can be done about it.

I also need a recommendation with respect to a deep cleaner, to remove grunge from LP's.

Thank you all again.

Peter, How do you use the Hunt brush. I got one cheap locally because it was the last one in the shop, no box, no directions. Did yours come with any instructions as to how to use it (there is an arrow on it, does it go with record rotation or against it, do you lift it off the record or slide it off the edge, and how do you clean it)? Thanks

[peter]

I use it by holding it just above the LP, with the line of carbon-fibers closest to my thumb just touching the record. Then, in one fluid (no pun intended) motion, I spin the record a few times and rotate the brush so that the other side of carbon-fibers contact the vinyl for a few spins. I then either lift the brush up (which always leaves some dust on the LP) or slide it off the LP gently (which leaves less dust on the LP). I do this 3-5 times for each side of the record.

Then, I use my black 20-year old brush to get even more dust off the record, and yes, there always is more, because HUNT bruches are not terribly efffective. This old black velvet brush I have removes so much deep dust, I can't believe it. I wish I hadn't lost the packaging, so I could tell you who made it! If I had a scanner, I'd attach a pix. There are some Canadians on this forum, so it was a Cdn. product, I bet someone could identify it.

[audio]

Originally posted by peter
I have had the same experience as PRIX. I remove dust with a Hunt brush, then remove more dust with a black disc-washer type dry brush that I have had for 20 years (don't remember who made it--got it in Canada long ago). It removes deep dust (you can see a line of grey with each cleaning). Then, i use an Allsop orbitrac, then a cleaning with LAST brushes and LAST fluid. I too took an LP after I had cleaned it into a shop where a VPI was available and... no difference to the record. My cleaning job was just as effective, though time consuming.

My only problem now is that LAST has changed the white fabric on their brushes to a much rougher fabric! You can feel it with your hands and the brush (with fluid on it) makes a much rougher noise when applied to the vinyl. So, I am using my older LAST brushes which have a smooth velvety fabric applied to them.

I would be interested if anyone has noticed this problem on LAST brushes, and what, if anything, can be done about it.

I also need a recommendation with respect to a deep cleaner, to remove grunge from LP's.

Thank you all again.


I would not recommend using the Last brushes or the Last fluid. Without elaborating and starting a war, I'll just say that I don't prefer them. The best system for cleaning an lp without a maching, according to prix, is the Stereophile recommended Disc Doctor system. The other comment I would like to make is with regard to your usage of the Discwasher brush. Those brushes are known not to remove dirt, but to grind it deeper into the grooves. As a pre-cleaning to remove deep dirt, I would recommend first a simple wash with tap water. After the record is dry, proceed with standard cleaning.

[peter]

prix, the black brush I refer to is NOT a discwsher. I know what those are. I have three and never use them. You are quite correct about them--they are awful.

Where does one get the Stereophile recommended disc-doctor system?

Thanks.

P.S. My LAST experience has been almost 100% positive, but as you said, no war, just people helping each other out. I, for one, always appreciate the advice I get here.

[teaser5]

Originally posted by peter
prix, the black brush I refer to is NOT a discwsher. I know what those are. I have three and never use them. You are quite correct about them--they are awful.

Where does one get the Stereophile recommended disc-doctor system?

Thanks.

P.S. My LAST experience has been almost 100% positive, but as you said, no war, just people helping each other out. I, for one, always appreciate the advice I get here.

Lots of people sell them but here's one:
www.redtrumpet.com

Good luck
Best
Norm

[PsychFan]

Originally posted by peter
Where does one get the Stereophile recommended disc-doctor system?

You could also get them directly from the Disc Doctor (http://www.discdoc.com) himself.

[Tony Plachy]

Originally posted by peter
I use it by holding it just above the LP, with the line of carbon-fibers closest to my thumb just touching the record. Then, in one fluid (no pun intended) motion, I spin the record a few times and rotate the brush so that the other side of carbon-fibers contact the vinyl for a few spins. I then either lift the brush up (which always leaves some dust on the LP) or slide it off the LP gently (which leaves less dust on the LP). I do this 3-5 times for each side of the record.

Then, I use my black 20-year old brush to get even more dust off the record, and yes, there always is more, because HUNT bruches are not terribly efffective. This old black velvet brush I have removes so much deep dust, I can't believe it. I wish I hadn't lost the packaging, so I could tell you who made it! If I had a scanner, I'd attach a pix. There are some Canadians on this forum, so it was a Cdn. product, I bet someone could identify it.

Peter, thanks for the input on the Hunt, your old black brush is it a C. Watts by chance. Its British not Canadian

[peter]

ALP: Thanks for the input. If my serves me correctly, I think you are right, this black brush I have is indeed a C. Watts! I do seem to remember that name on the original packaging--long since lost. Any further info you can provide me on this brush would be appreciated, as it really does remove a lot of dirt (dry brushing of course--I never use it as a wet cleaner although it was supposed to be able to do that too via the cylindrical-shaped sponge that was on the inside of the hollow brush). Plus, I bought it in Canada where I grew up, so it makes sense that it was British.

Thanks again!

[Tony Plachy]

Originally posted by peter
ALP: Thanks for the input. If my serves me correctly, I think you are right, this black brush I have is indeed a C. Watts! I do seem to remember that name on the original packaging--long since lost. Any further info you can provide me on this brush would be appreciated, as it really does remove a lot of dirt (dry brushing of course--I never use it as a wet cleaner although it was supposed to be able to do that too via the cylindrical-shaped sponge that was on the inside of the hollow brush). Plus, I bought it in Canada where I grew up, so it makes sense that it was British.

Thanks again!

If it has a place on the side where you can put water inside it to add moisture it is a C. Watts. As near is I can tell they are out of business (victims of the CD perfect sound). Does anyone out there have any other info on C. Watts record brushes?

[peter]

yes, it has the place on the side for the water to go in. Actually, there are caps on both sides of the brush.

Recently, I purchased some cool brand new "old stock" record cleaning products on ebay, so maybe there's a C. Watts brush there too as well. I go an Allsop Orbtrac 3 brand new about awhile back.

[vex]

Okay, I took a chance on that $15.00 clamp and it is just what the doctor ordered for the VPI record cleaning machine! I couldn't have asked for a better solution. This clamp goes on and comes off in a snap, and holds the record securely in place without having to tighten down that annoying top nut (which causes unwanted friction on the record label). It is the perfect size and does not get in the way of the brush or vacuum tube.

I am not associated with this seller in any way, but he seems to have quite a few of these clamps. If this auction has ended, check out his other auctions and you'll probably find another one. I am totally happy with this solution and think that VPI should consider using them as default equipment instead of that annoying top nut they provide now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1078&item=2528744262

[Ronflugelguy]

I don"t remember who made these, but I've seen them years before.NOS.

[duff138]

Thanks for the link. I may have to give one of those a try. My threaded clamp on my VPI turntable flew out of my hands a few months ago and brought my Sumiko BPS cartridge.
Also I'm planning on making my own DIY cleaning machine and have been thinking about what to use as a clap.