Recording with a Hi Fi VCR

[Cafe Jeff]

There is some very good radio up here in SARS land that I would not only like to listen to when I have the time (new baby in the house, get read Mr. Hoffman) but keep for posterity.
I thought I might try a Hi Fi VCR that has been laying around doing little. It offers SP and EP, but not LP. My question is, will be there be significant degradation using EP over Standard Play?
The show I want to record is 4 hours long, so if I used SP, I would have to juggle tapes between commercial breaks. Jeff

[Joseph]

Hi Jeff,

There is a big difference when if we're talking about video. But using the Hi-Fi vcr for audio only is another thing. The sonic quality will be very close between SP and EP. The effective tape speed is very high at either SP or EP.

[Cafe Jeff]

Thanks Joseph.
8 hours on one tape is highly convienant! And the tapes these days are so cheap.
One last question, I am planning on (eventually, when the sun cools) dubbing it to the computer via another Hi Fi VCR. Like reel to reel tape recorders, are hi fi vcrs similarly sensitive to the machine they were recorded on? Jeff

[Joseph]

That CAN be a problem if recording at the slow speed IF the second VCR's heads are far out of alignment. Not usually a problem but has cropped up in my experience. If that happens just use the original vcr for the analog to digital dump.

[michael w]

Hi Jeff,

Back in the pre-digital days I did a lot of taping off FM using a Hi-Fi VCR.

Down here the best tape to use was an E-180.
360 minutes when run in LP mode (EP record is non-existant here).

Sound was not so hot but it was very convenient.
No real loss compared to running at SP.

IME Hi-Fi VCRs are every bit as tape sensitive as RTR.
The auto-tracking control can be pretty piss poor on Hi-Fi VCRs.

What model VCR do you plan to use ?

Manual tracking, user adjustable recording levels and the option to record audio only are desirable when using a HiFi VCR for audio.
The above features are usually found on older machines.

If you plan to doing tape transfers you will get the best results by using the same VCR for recording and playback.

cheerio

[BradOlson]

Better yet, get a DAT recorder or a MiniDisc recorder with DAT being the ultimate but MD is a good budget option despite the lossy compression scheme.

[michael w]

But neither DAT nor MD LP will give you as long recording times as a 4 hour video tape run at slow speed (8 hours).

Nor does DAT/MD have the convenient built-in timer recording features for time-shifting that VCRs have.


cheerio

[sgraham]

VHS (or Beta) HiFi for the most part can sound very good - my Sony VCR sounds really nice. There's always the chance of hearing the odd buzzy bit now and then, particularly on a "naked" solo instrument or voice; it's the nature of the beast. Use new, undamaged tapes to minimize the chance. And as other folks have said, for best results use the same machine to play back as you did to record. Manual tracking adjustment can sometimes help if buzz is a problem. Tapes recorded at the slower speed will be more prone to mistracking-type problems (buzzy) than higher speed tapes; apart from that there is no difference in the sound quality that I can detect.

However, unfortunately, video tape is not a very good archival medium. There's just no telling how well it'll play back a few years down the road. I have some tapes that play fine, some that play fine except for occasional bad bits, and a couple that are unlistenable. (This goes for digital audio recorded on video tape as well as Beta HiFi.)

[Grant]

Now, I tried this and did some experiments. I DID notice some sound degredation recording HiFi VHS at the EP, or slow speed, compared to the SP, or standard speed.

I felt that recording to HiFi VHS still didn't sound as good as the source. My DAT deck does just fine for long recording sessions.

[Grant]

Originally posted by michael w


Nor does DAT/MD have the convenient built-in timer recording features for time-shifting that VCRs have.


cheerio

My Sony DAT does have a timer built in. Also, it's much easier to locate a sound event than with VHS tape. I have also never had a problem with tapes not playing.

But, since Jeff does not have a DAT or MD, a VHS HiFi tape sould do the job nicely.

[-=Rudy=-]

A three-hour blank DAT (backup grade, not the crappy consumer audio blanks) will provide six hours at the lower recording resolution. Which just about matches FM's sound quality. Thing is, mistracking is a problem with DAT as it is with VHS-HiFi. I've had about the same middlin' luck with both.

[sgraham]

Originally posted by Rudy@A&MCorner
A three-hour blank DAT (backup grade, not the crappy consumer audio blanks) will provide six hours at the lower recording resolution. Which just about matches FM's sound quality. Thing is, mistracking is a problem with DAT as it is with VHS-HiFi. I've had about the same middlin' luck with both.
Same frequency response, but still much lower noise than FM - but not every DAT machine can do the half speed mode, and as you say there's still the potential tracking problem and longevity issue.

[Cafe Jeff]

Did rather well last night. Listened to it this afternoon. Some veiling, but overall entirely convienant. I really do think these shows are great and never get to listen to the whole of it. In any event, wouldn't you guess that it is fundraising week on my local public radio... so a lot of please, please make a pledge. I of course did.
Eventually, I may transfer these to the computer, and edit this stuff out, but as I needed to record 4 hours and wanted to use the good tuner up stairs, the Hi Fi VCR worked a treat. I was able to listen to the show in one go this afternoon. How many cds would that be?
One thing that my Hi Fi VCR seems to be missing is a level control. Luckily, my Revox tuner has a variable out and I was able to use that to good effect.
Jeff
For the record, it's a Mistubishi from about 10 or so years back with very low miles.

[sgraham]

Most VCRs lack level controls. Fortunately they have sufficient dynamic range that, esp. for radio taping, it's not really critical.

I think most public stations in the U.S. are having fund drives this week.

[-=Rudy=-]

I have an older JVC that, unfortunately, someone jammed the mechanism on. But it had adjustable record levels (no compression) and it made some respectable hi-fi tapes in its day. I really should look online somewhere and see if i can find another like it. It was the first VHS deck ever to contain HiFi, HQ, and the then-new MTS stereo sound for broadcast TV. It weighed a LOT...today's stuff just feels like junk in my hands.

FWIW, I have a Sony Hi8 VCR, and it MIGHT have level controls on it...but I'm not certain...

[metalbob]

I have done this many, many times to tape Howard Stern in the mornings if he is planning on having a guest on early before I wake up or other various radio things. Just plug a cable into the REC out jack (for a tape deck) to AUDIO IN on your VCR and run a cable back the other way and you are in business. I have recorded in 6-hour speed and have had no problems. Fidelity seems to be very good if I can recall.

I currently use a cheap piece of software called Total Recorder that has a timer in it and it accomplishes the same task. I then edit the file and burn on a CD.

[romanotrax]

I have been doing this for years...

Lately, I have been using a Sony HIFI VHS recorder for years to record my DJ sets at the night club I dj at. When I am done for the night I dump the mix into my computer and I am amazed at how level and clean the sound is. I can get a full six hours on one tape with excellent quality then burn cds with good enough quality to sell to the regulars.