Best "A Hard Day's Night" laserdisc?

[john lennonist]

I'm new to the Laserdisc hunt but thought I'd pick up some desired titles if I can find them.

I know that different Beatles DVDs have problems -- some have bad sound, some bad picture quality, some bad picture cropping, etc.

I've found an MPI # MP1064D ("Extended Play"), "Manufactured by Pioneer Video Inc." laserdisc of "A Hard Day's Night."

Was there more than one mastering of this title on Laserdisc? If so, is this the best mastering of this laserdisc title (for sound, picture, etc.)?


While we're (you're :laugh:) at it, please tell me the catalog / identification info for the best Help!, Yellow Sub and Complet Beatles laserdiscs as well.

Thanks. :wave:

[Jamie Tate]

Isn't the Criterion LD the best version?

[wildchild]

Isn't the Criterion LD the best version?

Yes!

[balzac]

If you're specifically trying to collect LD's, then I can't offer much advice. But if you're just looking for a full-screnn/non-cropped version (unlike the current Miramax DVD), I think it's worth tracking down the early MPI DVD, as it was the first release to use the Rutan restoration of the film (I'm not sure, but I don't think that MPI issued a laserdisc counterpart to the 1997 DVD). It's of course the only full-screen release version of the Rutan restoration. I've never owned the LD versions, but that early MPI DVD has generally received good marks for picture quality from what I can remember.

[ubsman]

Isn't the Criterion LD the best version?

As for the movie itself, what would the difference be between the Criterion and the MPI ? I think they're the same. Of course the Criterion has bonus material.

Here's who I bought mine from:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320238111104

The price is certainly right.

[Shawn1968]

Here's a great link on Beatles laserdiscs:

http://www.rarebeatles.com/photopg5/laserd.htm

[john lennonist]

As for the movie itself, what would the difference be between the Criterion and the MPI ? I think they're the same. Of course the Criterion has bonus material.

Here's who I bought mine from:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320238111104

The price is certainly right.


Killer price...

The Catalog number (CLV 1064) is different from the one I was looking at... not sure if there're the say pressings or not.

The one on eBay also mentions "CX noise reduction", anyone know if that is in any way similar to the dreaded Digital No Noise?

[john lennonist]

But if you're just looking for a full-screnn/non-cropped version (unlike the current Miramax DVD), I think it's worth tracking down the early MPI DVD, as it was the first release to use the Rutan restoration of the film ... but that early MPI DVD has generally received good marks for picture quality from what I can remember.


Has it also received high marks for sound quality?

[therockman]

Criterion!!!!

[Tim H.]

Here's the scoop on CX -
http://laservideodisc.tripod.com/LD_Players/id4.html

The CX (CX stood for Compatible eXpansion) Noise Reduction System was added to the LaserVision format in 1982. Due to the way LD's are encoded, the right channel FM audio carrier is too close to the video carrier. With high level/high frequency audio or very bright scenes, these signals may overlap and interfere with each other causing audio distortion and on-screen 'beats'. In addition, the FM recording system used for the audio was suceptable to noise picked up from less-than-perfect pressing techniques. Pioneer looked for a way to reduce the interference and noise without having to change the system specifications. Both Dolby C type noise reduction and DBX Type II were submitted, but compatibility concerns (not to mention royalty rates) lead Pioneer to adopt CBS Lab's CX (Compatible Expansion) Noise Reduction System. Originally developed for LP's, the CX system was a 2:1 compressor/expander that worked somewhat like the Dolby and DBX systems but was designed for relatively quiet media. Another design goal for CX was that encoded recordings wouldn't sound noticably 'compressed' when played back without decoding. For LP's, CX provided 20db of noise reduction, but Pioneer changed the system slightly for better sound quality when UN-decoded, thus reducing the noise reduction to 14db. Unfortunately, Pioneer completely botched the CX system. Titles would be listed in catalogs as CX, but were not, titles without a CX mark WERE CX, and many titles didn't receive encoding at all. LaserVision fans begged studio's and Pioneer to CX every disc, but Pioneer refused. All Pioneer had to do was flip a switch during mastering, but they didn't. They wouldn't even tell studio's that CX was available. The studio had to specifically request it. This sad state of affairs would be repeated when digital sound was introduced.

CX Noise Reduction allowed tube-based players to achieve an audio signal-to-noise ratio of up to 72db (assuming a perfect pressing) with a dynamic range of 80db. Later solid-state players achieved a S/N of over 80db.


and from Wikipedia:
CX (audio)
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CX is a noise reduction system for recorded analog audio. It was developed by CBS Laboratories (a division of CBS) in the early 1980s, as a competitor to other noise reduction (NR) systems such as Dolby and dbx. The name CX was derived from "Compatible eXpansion," a feature of the technique.

CX was originally designed by CBS as a noise-reduction technology for vinyl LP records. CX required a special decoder connected to a stereo system, in order to fully reproduce the CX encoded sound on the LP. However, CX-encoded records could also be played without a decoder, with a resulting (claimed acceptable) amount of dynamic range compression.

CBS predicted that CX encoding would become standard on all new LP releases but this never happened. Approximately 50 CX encoded LP titles were released by CBS around 1982. The albums in this series also came in standard, non CX encoded versions. While the implementation of CX with LP's was quite unsuccessful and short-lived, CX would later see success as the NR used for the stereo analog audio tracks on laserdiscs. It was also used for the audio tracks on discs of the RCA SelectaVision CED videodisc system.

Almost all laserdisc (and some CED) players manufactured since the mid-1980s had CX NR capability as a standard feature, with almost all commercial laserdisc releases having CX encoding on their analog tracks as well.

[Tim H.]

The Criterion Collection Laserdiscs are the best LD issued. Try to find the CAV edition (Criterion #20, CLV is #20A) (only 30 minutes per side on disc, but better picture quality).

The same goes for HELP! - (Criterion #16 for CAV & 16A for CLV).

Yellow Sub is quite rare on LD and very expensive if you can find it.

If you don't have Magical Mystery Tour on LD, ( MPI/Apple ID6197MP) it's worth tracking down due to the George Martin Remixes of the songs (and it has the credit "Visual and dialogue materials restored and re-mastered by Ron Furmanek"

Another LD to track down Beatle-wise is "The Beatles Live: Ready Steady Go!" It's in the 8" LD format by Pioneer Artists: PA-87-M053.

[Downsampled]

Regarding The Compleat Beatles... there are two LDs, the original release and a superior remastered LD. I have the latter, and will say that it is very nice quality, given the medium and the source material.

The remastered Compleat Beatles is MGA/UA Home Video ML104691.

BTW, apparently this film will never be released again, because the Beatles (or Apple or whatever) bought it and buried it before the Anthology came out. At least that's what I remember reading somewhere.

[Mister Kite]

The Criterion CAV (2-disc set) is the best IMO. Be careful when you buy, though, both Criterion editions as well as the Warner's John Lennon Imagine disc are known "rotters" (laser disc rot.) See if you can preview before you buy, or make sure the dealer allows for returns.

[Jeff H.]

Also agree with the comments about the CAV edition of HDN on LD. The picture and sound quality is excellent on this version. Even though I've kept my discs stored in a nice cool, dry place, I've noticed some mild laser rot over the years. Not so bad that renders it unwatchable but it's noticeable.

[balzac]

Has it also received high marks for sound quality?

I haven't heard anything particularly bad about the MPI AHDN DVD in terms of sound. It doesn't have the original mono soundtrack, but no release does. Pretty much all releases but the Miramax DVD use the 1982 mix that subs in the stereo mixes of the songs.

[Drifter]

I haven't heard anything particularly bad about the MPI AHDN DVD in terms of sound. It doesn't have the original mono soundtrack, but no release does.In the 90s I rented an old VHS with the original mono soundtrack and I have an old Laserdisc with the original mono soundtrack; unfortunately it has bad laser rot though. :shake:

[balzac]

In the 90s I rented an old VHS with the original mono soundtrack and I have an old Laserdisc with the original mono soundtrack; unfortunately it has bad laser rot though. :shake:

I did think about the fact that some earlier releases didn't have stereo tracks on them. But are you sure any of those releases that had only a mono track feature the original mono mix of the film? I'm thinking those releases were simply "folding down" the 1982 soundtrack. I've never heard of any official release featuring the true mono soundtrack, as Beatles reference books have usually pointed collectors/fans to things like old film prints of the film or the old vinyl "Cinelogue" boot to get the true unique mono mix, featuring alternate, unique of things like "Tell Me Why."

[Drifter]

I did think about the fact that some earlier releases didn't have stereo tracks on them. But are you sure any of those releases that had only a mono track feature the original mono mix of the film? I'm thinking those releases were simply "folding down" the 1982 soundtrack. I've never heard of any official release featuring the true mono soundtrack, as Beatles reference books have usually pointed collectors/fans to things like old film prints of the film or the old vinyl "Cinelogue" boot to get the true unique mono mix, featuring alternate, unique of things like "Tell Me Why."It definitely had the mono mix - it had the sound effects that are missing in the stereo mix (George's amp falling during "If I Fell" & I believe a voice over when the guy breaks into the car) and the alternate music mixes. It is an MPI release and shows "Distributed by Maljack Productions, Inc - MPI MP 1064D" on it. There's no UPC code on it. According to this page http://www.rarebeatles.com/photopg5/laserd.htm it's a rare first issue from 1984; too bad for me that it has laser rot. :sigh:

[Drifter]

It also has "And I Love Her" with a single-tracked vocal from Paul, like on the North American AHDN Soundtrack.

[Larry Geller]

It definitely had the mono mix - it had the sound effects that are missing in the stereo mix (George's amp falling during "If I Fell" & I believe a voice over when the guy breaks into the car) and the alternate music mixes. It is an MPI release and shows "Distributed by Maljack Productions, Inc - MPI MP 1064D" on it. There's no UPC code on it. According to this page http://www.rarebeatles.com/photopg5/laserd.htm it's a rare first issue from 1984; too bad for me that it has laser rot. :sigh:
Here's my mint copy of it:

[Drifter]

Here's my mint copy of it:Nice - yours definitely has no laser rot? Mine looks as nice as yours but has pretty bad laser rot - particularly side 1. Side 2 plays pretty good for the most part.

I should point out that this 1984 release is in fake stereo but sums nicely into mono as it's the treble/bass method.

[Chris C]

All of this "LASER ROT" talk here forced me to pull out the three BEATLES Laserdiscs that I own and I'm happy to report that all three are as minty fresh, as they day that they were pressed!

"A HARD DAY'S NIGHT" (Criterion CLV- 1st press, with no bar code)

"THE COMPLEAT BEATLES" (MGM New Remastered Edition)

"THE BEATLES FIRST VISIT" (MPI/APPLE)

I have made DVD-R backups of "A HARD DAY'S NIGHT" and "THE COMPLEAT BEATLES".

Chris C

[Jamie Tate]

All of this "LASER ROT" talk here forced me to pull out the three BEATLES Laserdiscs that I own and I'm happy to report that all three are as minty fresh, as they day that they were pressed!

Me too. I looked at all mine last night and didn't see any signs of rot (unlike some of my CDs).

[Drifter]

Me too. I looked at all mine last night and didn't see any signs of rot (unlike some of my CDs).I must just be unlucky in that department as my Let It Be laserdisc also has bad laser rot. http://smilies.stevehoffman.tv/mudscrying.gif

When you say "I looked at all mine" I'm assuming you meant you played them? I ask because (as you most likely know) you cannot see laser rot by simply looking at the disc - you have to actually play it. Laser rot usually appears as coloured speckles throughout the image and can affect the sound too.

[Chris C]

Drifter, I just did a "visual" only, not an actual playing. I thought that you COULD see "laser Rot", because I have a Laserdisc of Neil Sedaka Live on MCA, that looks like what I thought was "laser rot", as it has all kinds of pinpoints and there is even a place where you can see through the entire disc. I bought it used (one of the few that I ever have, by the way), because it was only a few dollars and I was interested in the artist. I knew that it looked bad, but was willing to buy it, just for the noveity of it. The thing wasn't that bad for a few bucks, to be honest.

Out of the 40 or so laserdiscs that I still own, none of them have EVER given me a skip, bleep or boop...,wish that I could say the same for that $800 SONY BLU-RAY machine that is constantly skipping and stopping for WHATEVER reason? It has a great picture, but it really sucks when you have friends over and the stupid thing acts up!

Chris C