MIT wire

[audio]

I've been using MIT Terminator interconnects and speaker cables and have been largely unsatisfied with their sound. I feel that they have a slightly bloated and murky quality to them. What attracts me to these Grovers is the idea that they are very neutral and open sounding. Is this correct? I have just completed the sale of my MIT interconnects and am ready to seriously consider ordering some Grovers. Is there any possibility Grover would make me a set of bi-wire speaker cables?

[Grant]

Originally posted by prix
I've been using MIT Terminator interconnects and speaker cables and have been largely unsatisfied with their sound. I feel that they have a slightly bloated and murky quality to them. What attracts me to these Grovers is the idea that they are very neutral and open sounding. Is this correct? I have just completed the sale of my MIT interconnects and am ready to seriously consider ordering some Grovers. Is there any possibility Grover would make me a set of bi-wire speaker cables?

Hmmm, I found my MITs to be pretty neutral, but they are a bit dark, which is fine with me.

[audio]

Originally posted by Grant


Hmmm, I found my MITs to be pretty neutral, but they are a bit dark, which is fine with me.


Well for one, your Terminator 2s are probably better than my Terminator 4s. Other than that, with Polk Audio speakers and Sony components, I am not sure you are hearing the same level of detail that my system is producing. What do you mean by "dark"? Do you mean murky or obscured?

[Grant]

Originally posted by prix



Well for one, your Terminator 2s are probably better than my Terminator 4s. Other than that, with Polk Audio speakers and Sony components, I am not sure you are hearing the same level of detail that my system is producing. What do you mean by "dark"? Do you mean murky or obscured?

No, you can't be sure unless you can stand in front of my stereo and hear it yourself. You and I will never be sure if my system is NOT producing the same level of detail as yours, but that is another topic discussion (a good one, too).

By dark I mean that the sound is not overly bright, or that the highs are not exaggerated. Make no mistake, I hear crystal clean and clear detail with these Polks! The mids are not exaggerated as one may suspect, and the bass is deep for bookshelf speakers. The Polk RT55s are highly rated and the company's best seller.

Yes, the Terminator 2 is a step up from the Teminator 4. You know that cumulative midrange bloat you can get from using all of the same manufacturer's cables in a system? That does not happen with MIT.
I have tried many cables over the years, and a very select few win in my system. MIT, Kimber, and one other that I cannot recall the name of, but the color is green.

The worst I have used are Audioquest Topaz and all Monster. I found Straightwire to be very detailed, but thin on bass.

Don't get down on Sony, because not all of their stuff is bad sounding. Their cassette decks sound quite good-when they work at all! The CD player I have is one step below their ES series. It is a real workhorse, and the sound has never let me down. The DAT's converters have proven to be quite good, as well. The Sony headphones I use are recording studio standards.

[Dave]

Interesting topic gentlemen. I also found the MIT T2's & T4's too dark on my system. The Kimber SS's along with the Kimber 8TC speaker cable made the MIT's sound heavily veiled as compared to the Kimbers.

[Claus]

I also had the MIT's in my system... interconnects between the CD player and amplifier, and I also wasn't very satisfied with the sound.

But I do like very much Transparent Cable's Music Wave Ultra (loudspeakers)... they are very neutral and (IMHO) one of the best speaker cables in this price range.

If costs are no object... I do prefer TC's Reference and XLO Electric's Unlimited Edition. The best cables, what I've ever heard in comparison against the best from Cardas, Kimber, NBS, Siltech, Straight Wire...

[Dave]

Originally posted by Claus
I also had the MIT's in my system... interconnects between the CD player and amplifier, and I also wasn't very satisfied with the sound.

But I do like very much Transparent Cable's Music Wave Ultra (loudspeakers)... they are very neutral and (IMHO) one of the best speaker cables in this price range.

If costs are no object... I do prefer TC's Reference and XLO Electric's Unlimited Edition. The best cables, what I've ever heard in comparison against the best from Cardas, Kimber, NBS, Siltech, Straight Wire...
Wow! You've heard the KS-3038's Claus along with the KS-1030's? Could you please give us a description of the sound?

[Grant]

Perhaps I just like a darker sound. But, is it accurate? I hear brightness with bright recordings, but it is usually not piercing. I can tell you that the track "Celebration" by Kool And The Gang on most masterings hurt my ears at low volume, and I have little or no tolerance of maximized recordings.

The only way to know for sure how my system sounds is to play it next to a reference system. But then, there are variations between those as well.

[Claus]

I don't like or should I say I hate colored sound... and it doesn't depend on the brand.

I have heard the Kimber last year in a custom made showroom (http://www.lifelike-hifi.de/studios/referenz.htm) at my dealer. It's not easy to hear the weakness of reference cables. I have my preferences... that doesn't mean the "worse" cable is bad... maybe it works better in a other combination.

I haven't heard a cable, which fits for all stereo's... that means Transparent Cable's Reference XL isn't perfect, but one of the best 3 cables for solid state equipment!

[Dave]

Yes Claus I do agree with you that cables and such are very system dependant. So how did you find the Kimbers to be coloured? I found the Transparent Music Wave's to be a little on the murky side in the mid-range as compared to the KS-1010's on my SS system.

Nice listening room at your dealers BTW.;)

[Claus]

Originally posted by Dave
Yes Claus I do agree with you that cables and such are very system dependant. So how did you find the Kimbers to be coloured? I found the Transparent Music Wave's to be a little on the murky side in the mid-range as compared to the KS-1010's on my SS system.

Nice listening room at your dealers BTW.;)

I haven't said the Kimber are bad... they belongs to the best cables in the world and their topline got rave reviews in our audiophile mags... I have Wilson Audio's Watt/Puppy in my listening room (http://www.ccheng.de/musik/hifidelity/bilder/hoerraum.jpg) and they use Transparent Cable for the internal wiring, also the connection between the Watt AND Puppy is by Transparent... so I have checked Transparent's first, and later I also compared other High End cables. Unfortunately I haven't heard the Kimber in MY listening room, but I heard the same combination at my dealer... also the Krell CD player with Mark Levinson's 33 mono amplifiers, and I got the same results. I don't know what kind of reference speakers Kimber have used during the development of their KS-3038's...

You can read about Transparent's showroom here (http://www.transparentcable.com/about/about_headquarters.html)

By the way... I must drive about 100 miles to my dealer, but it's one of the best in Germany... nice studios (http://www.lifelike-hifi.de/studios/fset_studios.htm)

[Grant]

I don't hear any coloring of the sound through my MIT Terminator 2.

[Dave]

Originally posted by Grant
I don't hear any coloring of the sound through my MIT Terminator 2.
Interesting Grant. I wonder if you would say this after comparing them to the Grovers that Steve's recommending? Now that would be a very interesting result IMHO. I know that when I get a couple of pairs of the Grovers I will be commenting on the comparison to my Kimbers.:)

[Grant]

Why does everyone keep insinuating that I am not hearing what I say I hear? No one has heard my system.

[Gary]

I think they are "guestimating" what they'd sound like in THEIR system, Grant.

Obviously they suit YOUR system quite wel! Do you know how lucky you are to have found the "perfect interconnect"?

[Metralla]

Originally posted by Grant
I don't hear any coloring of the sound through my MIT Terminator 2.
How do you know this, Grant? I could not make such a statement with respect to my i/cs, since I have no idea what uncoloured reproduction is like.

I might say that I like the sound of certain interconnects, and in comparison to another set of interconnects, I could easily claim that the second set "coloured" the sound; that would be a reasonable statement. But to claim that one set, specifically, the MIT Terminator 2, is totally neutral is a difficult thesis to support. All cables affect the sound in some way.

What you could say is that in your experience, of the i/cs you have tried, you feel that the MIT Terminators are the most neutral.

Regards,
Geoff

[Grant]

Geoff, If you re-read my statement, I did say that I did not hear any coloring of the sound. That is a subjective statement, and not conclusive. My opinion is based on education about MY system, it's capabilities as I know them, and MY experience with sound reproduction throughout my lifetime.

[LesPaul666]

My system uses Terminator 4's for interconnects and Terminator 2's for speaker cables, using an ADCOM GCD-750(CD), GFP-750 PRE, GFA-5802(PWR), using Paradigm studio 20 ver. 2 for the mains, which could be viewed as a harsh combination, but it sounds really great for me...Nothing dark or bloated about it...very in your face, detail out the wazoo and smooth sounding at the same time. i guess I got a lucky combination... ; )=

[Grant]

I have herad many people say that MIT is "dark" sounding, and that was my impression as well, but the highs and sparkle are all there. It's just that the Terminators clean up the sound. The dynamics are there, and nothing is exaggerated. Not too fat, not too thin, just clean and natural. If this is what most people think of as dark sounding, then this is what I like. The cable is not bright compared to most other brands i've used, except for the Kimber.

The MIT sounds transparent. I do NOT get that "in your face" sound at all! If you want to talk about "in your face" sound, Audioquest Topaz did just that. The cables sounded very messy, bright, compressed, and fatiguing. Detail? No! It was the compression.

[VU Master]

Sorry, I believe that all this is bunk, the impressions described above being the result of psychoacoustics based on appearance of the cables, advertising, and/or word of mouth, not technical properties.

And I believe that in a blind testing situation, the above posters would be unable to differentiate between or identify the cables described above.

I don't mean to flame here, this is just my honest opinion based on 27 years on the audio industry.

[Dave]

Originally posted by David Kulka
Sorry, I believe that all this is bunk, the impressions described above being the result of psychoacoustics based on appearance of the cables, advertising, and/or word of mouth, not technical properties.

And I believe that in a blind testing situation, the above posters would be unable to differentiate between or identify the cables described above.

I don't mean to flame here, this is just my honest opinion based on 27 years on the audio industry.
Great! What's your opinon on digital mastering as opposed to analog mastering and if there's a difference please explain?

[VU Master]

Dave, as you know, there's a world of difference between digital and analog mastering. The two are vastly different technologies with different noise floor and headroom issues, different kinds of distortions and bandwidth limits, and other differences --- jitter, clock issues, conversion issues on the digital side; hum, rumble, wow, phase problems, harmonic and intermod issues on the analog side.

Personally I enjoy both; I've got a fairly large collection of well cared for vinyl, but I also listen to CD's and am shopping for a DVD-A player. I assure you, if I were the subject of a blind A/B test comparing a CD and vinyl disk, telling them apart would be easy! I think that goes for most anyone on this board.

I'm not sure what this has to do with differences between cables, but I hope I've answered your question!

[Dave]

Originally posted by David Kulka
Dave, as you know, there's a world of difference between digital and analog mastering. The two are vastly different technologies with different noise floor and headroom issues, different kinds of distortions and bandwidth limits, and other differences --- jitter, clock issues, conversion issues on the digital side; hum, rumble, wow, phase problems, harmonic and intermod issues on the analog side.

Personally I enjoy both; I've got a fairly large collection of well cared for vinyl, but I also listen to CD's and am shopping for a DVD-A player. I assure you, if I were the subject of a blind A/B test comparing a CD and vinyl disk, telling them apart would be easy! I think that goes for most anyone on this board.

I'm not sure what this has to do with differences between cables, but I hope I've answered your question!
Actually, I have no idea in the differences between vinyl and cd as I only run digital/SS since my equipment upgrades to audiophile standards, but I will take it as you've described because I know people whose ears I trust who have said the same thing. Also, I'm sure you could tell the difference between the two.

Have you by chance compared some of Steve's work on both vinyl and cd?

I'm very curious as to how you believe that there is no difference between interconnects and speaker cables as far as sound quality/differences go as well when other members, namely people on this board whom you seem to believe have enough knowledge to know the differences between vinyl and cd's, are saying they do hear differences, but yet you don't acknowledge that it's even possible. This kind of puzzles me.

Have I somehow misunderstood what you're saying?

[AudioEnz]

Originally posted by David Kulka
Sorry, I believe that all this is bunk, the impressions described above being the result of psychoacoustics based on appearance of the cables, advertising, and/or word of mouth, not technical properties.

That's right. Tell us we're all stupid. And delusional. And stupidly delusional.

And I believe that in a blind testing situation, the above posters would be unable to differentiate between or identify the cables described above.

Curious how blind testing can't show any difference in anything in audio. Surely that shows that blind testing isn't the panacea that some make it out to be.

I don't mean to flame here, this is just my honest opinion based on 27 years on the audio industry.

And my honest opinion based on reviewing and writing about this gear every week for over 16 years is that difference do exist between the sound of cables, amplifiers and CD players. And speakers too, but I suspect you realise that last bit.

[Metralla]

Originally posted by David Kulka
Sorry, I believe that all this is bunk
Don't be sorry.

We tolerate those who believe strange and fantastic myths. Like all cables sound the same; like "Perfect Sound Forever"; like 634 times better than a Linn; like solid state amplifiers sound better than valve amplifiers.

All are welcome.

Regards,
Geoff