Hi! Im strongly considering buying the 21cd Sinatra Capitol Years boxset released in UK 1998. It's rather expensive so before I buy I had hoped to get some comments on this set from the forum. From a musical viewpoint it's of course brilliant stuff! I especially like that the bonus tracks are on a separate disc and that you get the 'This is Sinatra' etc. collections of the singles. I don't care that it's not complete (i.e contains all Capitol recordings) How would you consider the sound quality on this boxset? From what I have read so far, there is much to be desired from Capitols handling of the Sinatra back-catalog. It seems to me that the Bob Norberg remaserts are now the source for all current releases (as in the latest 3cd collection released in Europe. And that his work is not considered to be very good. Any comments about the quality of the artwork would also be appreciated? So would you recommend I pick up the 21cd set? (I guess with the Norberg remasters there will not be any new mastering of the Sinatra catalog in the near future? Or does anyone know otherwise?) Thanks!
Hi, there. First of all the set is not remastered from the first generation tapes, at least as far as I know. However, the mono recordings aren't given a slight phony stereo effect (widening) which is what Bob Norberg does all the time and which I can't stand. The box is okay but the booklet sucks the mop. The artwork and covers are VERY appealing. If you can, try and locate as many Larry Walsh remasters of Sinatra at Capitol. While they are not considered great, they were all (except Swing Easy/Songs For Young Lovers) remastered from the original studio tapes. Also, the U.K. box is not de-noised, and that is good. It also contains two alternates that you can't get anywhere else on CD.
IMO, this is the best of what's available as far as Capitol-era Sinatra on CD. Maybe it's not from first generation masters, but most of it sounds quite good...no noise reduction, compression or funky EQ. I compared Songs For Swingin' Lovers in this set to a VG Capitol gray label, and it stacks up quite nicely. Much better than the original CD issue or MFSL. I actually like this set a lot better than the Larry Walsh-mastered CDs. While those CDs may have used original tapes, either some weird EQ or poor playback equipment was used for the transfers. Everything has a slightly "cold" sound.
I also have the UK box set as well as all the other releases on CD. FOr mid 50's Capitol Sinatra the UK box sounds the best I've heard on CD including the MFLS Songs for Swingin' Lovers UDI and UDII. With the following exceptions. Swing Easy sounds better to my ears on the Larry Walsh remasters. The other Larry Walsh remasters of the first 4 Capitol releases are very close to the UK set. The Norberg version of Come Dance with me and Nice and Easy (individual songs only) to my ears is a marginal improvement over all others I've listened to. I agree with everyone: try to avoid the Entertainer of The Century Norberg remasters. All the best, Gary
Not too long ago, someone on eBay must have broken up one of these sets and was selling the discs individually. I had never heard the box and was little leary of it to be honest, so I bought one disc from to dip my toe in the water - the Songs For Swingin' Lovers! disc from this set. It's obviously sourced from the early 60's echoed/Eq'd redub (likely some sort of copy of it I'd think), instead of the correct tape. I hear some noise reduction, and weird Eq. I am not impressed. Although the MoFi Gold CD comes from the wrong tape as well, at least it's a pure transfer (though that's not saying much). As far as this particlular album goes, the only CD issue that even comes close to being right (and it ain't there) are the handful of tracks from it on the 3CD US The Capitol Years set that Ron Furmanek put together. But it has it's issues as well - the equipment that was used wasn't the greatest sounding, and there's a little bit of NoNoise. I will not be buying this set unless someone is dumping their set very cheap. Maybe I shouldn't judge the whole set on the one disc, but I'm not hopeful that I'll like it after listening to this disc from it. I am so tired of the abuse this catalog has suffered. Next to Sinatra, I love The Beatles more than anything to do with music, but their CD catalog problems (which are many of course) have nothing on Frank at Capitol. It’s just so wrong and sad.
The Larry Walsh Capitol remasters (1987 and 1991) are not that bad. I find them very listenable. No traces of noise reduction.
Thanks for all the replies! I just have one more concern before buying this set. I just got to have this music, so this is probably my best option. (I guess I can't wait around for years for the mastering job to be done right, if ever!) Reading the reviews on amazon.com, I saw mention of some kind of problem with the track timing on some of the cd's. (i.e songs start before the actual track has started) Can anyone here comment on this. Is it true? (If so, a really sloppy job on such an expensive set!) Not a big problem when playing the cd from start to finish, but annoying if skipping tracks etc. Not to mention the extra work required if you want to burn your favorite tracks on a mix-cd. Thank's again to all taking their time replying.
Martin, keep in mind that, as I mentioned in other threads on this topic, Songs For Swinging Lovers is the ONLY disc in that set that has that echo stuff going on. It's apparent when recording the disc onto a cassette and the VU meters are not doing the same thing. It's the only disc of that bunch that does that. I wish I could play the others for you.
TWZ, yes there is a track timing problem but it only exists on Where Are You?, which starts playing each song minus one second from 0:00. In other words, the song is a second old at it's supposed begining.
Thanks for clearing that up Sean! Guess I could live with that problem on one disc. This music is after all a must have! Well, I'm off to place an order for this boxset Thank's again to all for your help!
Martin it seems you are suggesting (without saying so) that original vinyl is the way to go with SFSL. ?
Yeah, but good luck finding a really nice copy. The best copies I'd think would be the earliest gray label ones (LONG PLAYING at the bottom of the label, without HIGH FIDELITY) with the "block" style machine stamping with "D" instead of "N" in the runout/dead area (ex. side 1: W1-653-D5), but any copy up made up until about 1961 or so should be at the least fairly decent. I'd think at the worst it might sound a little dull. If you stop at the pressings with the black/rainbow labels that Capitol logo on the left with the "points" coming out of the logo, you should be safe in that you should have a copy that comes either from the correct master or a dub of it, not made from the echoed/Eq'd copy tapes that was soon to come.
I'd like to update this to correct some wrong information I had previously posted: Well, I'm still not impressed with it , but I was just listening to this disc and it DOES come from the correct tape, by way of the 1987 futzed with digital mastering. If you have this UK disc and also the 1987 Captiol US CD, compare them. You'll notice that the "quirks" of how they futzed with the sound when that mastering was done are also on this UK CD, with some additional "mastering" for that disc. They do not sound the same, but the UK Songs For Swingin' Lovers! CD from the 21CD box set shares the "character" of the 1987 US CD, with additional "mastering". The 1987 US CD sounds a little better than this disc, but that's faint praise. Sorry about the previous post on this - the onion soup is murder...
Martin, I guess that's what I was getting at in my earlier post from October on this thread when I wrote that this UK version made the cassette deck levels uneven in the record mode. As you once put it, it's as though his vocals are 'floating'. Again, this is the only mono disc in the set to do that. All others are even-steven. I think you'd be somewhat impressed with In The Wee Small Hours, as even the early Larry Walsh has that digital echo added. You're the one who pointed that out to me, by the way. Same deal with Close To You. The British versions show no level variations. Perfectly even.
In regard to "Sinatra; The Capitol Years", a 21 disc boxset issued in the UK in 1998, is anyone able to: (i) list the titles of all 21 CDs; (ii) inform me if all the orginal tracklists on the original albums are kept in tact with all the bonus tracks collected on separate discs or not ; and (iii) inform me as to who mastered these discs? Thanks!
The boxed set has these albums: • Songs for Young Lovers • Swing Easy • In the Wee Small Hours • This Is Sinatra! • Songs for Swingin' Lovers! • Close to You • A Swingin' Affair! • Where Are You? • Come Fly with Me • This Is Sinatra, Vol.2 • Only the Lonely • Come Dance with Me! • No One Cares • Look to Your Heart • Nice 'n' Easy • Come Swing with Me! • All the Way • Sinatra's Swingin' Session!!! • Point of No Return • Sinatra Sings... of Love and Things • The Rare Sinatra There are no mastering credits in the booklets.
Will this do for starters? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Capitol_Years_(1998_Frank_Sinatra_album) HTH, Stephen
That's for the list of titles. Can you tell by listening whether these are the late 1980s/ early '90s Walsh mastered tracks?
According to that Wikipedia page the CDs are 20-bit remastered, but that isn't mentioned anywhere on the CD inserts, just that they're "digitally remastered".
Here's what I know... the track lists seem to have been preserved (not like the reprise set). The bonus tracks are on the This is Sinatra and Rare Sinatra discs (unlike the Concepts set) the cd's are marked Copyright 1998 EMI, but list no mastering credit, they do seem to be un-mucked-about with, the albums that were only available in mono have not had fake stereo added. I don't know who mastered this box, however the mastering is different from the Concepts box. this is all just filler until Martin shows up and school's us This is available on amazon.com again (I had to get mine thru amazon.co.uk) unfortunately you will have to pay dearly for it.
Yes, Martin has chimed in here before about this box set. Search for the previous thread where he did a lot of comparisons between this box, the Concepts box, and the original U.S. cds. The bottom line, from what I recall, is that this box is the best cd source for some of the albums; for others, the original cds were better in other cases. (Hopefully my memory is accurate.)
