Citizen Kane: Is it only admired for it's innovation?

[Greatest Hits]

I'm just starting to get into Orson Welles (after recently hearing the complete "every July, peas grow there" tape, I became interested:righton: ) and I notice that Citizen Kane always ends up on those "greatest movies" list.

I haven't picked it up yet (is the current DVD good?) but I plan on it.

However, I was wondering if it's only thought of as a great film because of all it's innovations (use of deep-focus/in-camera tricks, unique use of sound, make-up, etc.), it's story, the actors, or all of those?
What do you all think?

[OakBarrel]

All of the above, it's the total package. There was another thread here about Citizen Kane not too long ago.

[Director]

Definitely check out the thread from a few months ago on "Citizen Kane". :righton:

[Vidiot]

No, I actually discovered the movie when I was about 12, watching it on the late, late show. I thought it was a fantastic story about a powerful, terribly flawed man, and the story and characters were great. To me, the artistic elements were every bit as compelling as the technique -- the lighting, the camerawork, the sound, the editing, and so on.

[Black Elk]

While I am a huge fan of the film, I think it is only fair to point out that there is a documentary that shows that many of the film's innovations were actually lifted from other films. However, for the life of me I can't remember the name of this documentary. Anyone?

[Bahax]

^
I don't know that documentary, but part of Kane's strength at that time was gathering together those techniques in one film for the first time. Few of those techniques, if any, were originated in Kane.

It's real strength is narrative, dramatic.

[vinyl anachronist]

I admire it more than I like it. I think it's the greatest film ever made, but it's not in my Top 50 favorites. I just never had an emotional connection to it.

[apileocole]

I admire it more than I like it. I think it's the greatest film ever made, but it's not in my Top 50 favorites. I just never had an emotional connection to it.

:agree: Similarly here.

[Bahax]

I admire it more than I like it. I think it's the greatest film ever made, but it's not in my Top 50 favorites. I just never had an emotional connection to it.
You think it's the greatest film ever made, yet you don't really like it? I can't wrap my head around that one. (perhaps you've been swayed by all the blithering/blathering essays)

Me, I do not think it's the greatest movie ever made, and I love it to death.

I think the whole idea of picking the greatest movie ever is rather absurd.

[Greatest Hits]

Was the documentary called something like "Raising Kane"? I seem to remember seeing it once upon a time.

There was also a AMC Backstory on it (remember when AMC used to show movies? Actual GOOD movies? :winkgrin:).

[Johnny66]

While I am a huge fan of the film, I think it is only fair to point out that there is a documentary that shows that many of the film's innovations were actually lifted from other films. However, for the life of me I can't remember the name of this documentary. Anyone?

J'accuse Citizen Kane (1991).

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0996623/

It's interesting, but a little too vitriolic for my tastes. I think it's a particular generation of film buffs and critics that are to blame for the inflated reputation of the movie (particularly how it is positioned with respect to film noir) - rather than Welles or the film itself.

[Vidiot]

I just never had an emotional connection to it.
I think the problem for a lot of people about Kane is that the central character is distant, arrogant, and full of flaws. But to me, the connection I have with the film is that no one person ever sees the truth about somebody else -- that everyone comes away with a different impression of what they're really about.

The other thing that hit me hard about the film was the tremendous dialog it had. There's a million quotes I love from the film:

"But Charles, people will think..."
"...what I tell them to think!"

"I think it would be fun to run a newspaper."

"You know, if I hadn't been very rich, I might have been a really great man."

"What would you like to have been?"
"Everything you hate."

"Gettys! I'm going to send you to Sing Sing! Sing Sing, Gettys! Sing Sing!"

I can practically quote scenes from this movie by heart. And talk about emotional: the scene where Kane destroys his (soon-to-be-former) wife's bedroom... jesus, that's intense.

I have to admit, when other directors (particularly Scorcese) make movies about unlikeable characters, it's hard for me to get into the film. Raging Bull, Goodfellows, Aviator... all of these are great films, but hard for me to watch more than once.

[BILLONEEG]

Aside from highly recommending that you see "Citizen Kane", I also believe the filming techniques were awesome. The DVD is great & Roger Ebert's commentary is top notch. By all means , watch it again with Roger's audio track on.

[Rael]

I admire it more than I like it. I think it's the greatest film ever made, but it's not in my Top 50 favorites. I just never had an emotional connection to it.

That's pretty much how I feel, except I don't think it (or any film) I've ever seen is the greatest film ever made.

[kevinsinnott]

I think Welles broke creative ground with it. He made such a great effort and he was outside the Hollywood system and it made people incredibly jealous in the industry. He'd already become famous for his genius in radio and that he virtually overnight made such a powerful film was downright scary to film critics and their media bosses. In what in hindsight can only be seen as self-destructive, he happened to make a film critical of mass media, of critics themselves, which didn't help. Why didn't he pick on the medical profession while he was at it? Come to think of it, he did. Even the attending doctor to the second Mrs. Kane's suicide attempt seems corrupt.

The film is nonstop creative energy. It's inspired a lot of indie filmmakers, but few audiences who don't themselves have creative ambitions. The story is certainly dark, it's an unwarm film that does little to inspire in its story. Even if that were its sole weakness, it's a big one.

I'm someone who's found great creative inspiration in Welles' work, but I confess after many viewings, it's easy to see others' ambivalence, even disdain for Citizen Kane, even though it's one of my favorites.

[Jay F]

I recommend watching it as the way to form your opinion about it.

[johnnyyen]

This was the most recent discussion on Kane.

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=135413&highlight=citizen+kane

[yasujiro]

The great score by B. Herrmann, the sensual cinematography by G. Toland and the genius' directing, what could you ask more?

[jojopuppyfish]

The biggest flaw with the film is Orson Wells's acting. He looks like he's acting.

I find myself watching the film once a year.....I identify with the rosebud concept. I think its a great film....I would never say its the greatest film of all time.....that question is way too subjective.

[yasujiro]

The biggest flaw with the film is Orson Wells's acting. He looks like he's acting.
lol
Orson Wells is Orson Wells, after all.

[jojopuppyfish]

Steve Soderberg has said the exact same thing.
He's not considered to be a great actor.

[Marty Milton]

The DVD of Citizen Kane has a great commentary by Roger Ebert. He really gives an in-depth analysis of the movie.

[MrPeabody]

I'm just starting to get into Orson Welles (after recently hearing the complete "every July, peas grow there" tape, I became interested:righton: ) and I notice that Citizen Kane always ends up on those "greatest movies" list.

I haven't picked it up yet (is the current DVD good?) but I plan on it.

However, I was wondering if it's only thought of as a great film because of all it's innovations (use of deep-focus/in-camera tricks, unique use of sound, make-up, etc.), it's story, the actors, or all of those?
What do you all think?

It is all that and more. His acting was rather old-school, which tends to turn people off today. But as you watch the film, keep in mind that the guy who put all this together and played the lead was 25 years old! I can't even bear to think about what I was doing at 25...

[guidedbyvoices]

I saw Citizen Kane after that first AFI Top 100 films lit came out ten years ago. I fully expected it to be a bit "sterile" - a movie I'd respect sure. But I was surprised how much I simply enjoyed the film as a sit back and watch a flick kind of movie. It's a good story told in an interesting way.

the more I watched it, the more I got out of it, especially helped by the Ebert commentary on the DVD, which is like a film class.

If you end up liking this, be sure to check out The Third Man (with Welles and Jospeh Cotten). I saw it because I liked Kane so much, and now The Third Man is my all time favorite film.

[johnnyyen]

The DVD of Citizen Kane has a great commentary by Roger Ebert. He really gives an in-depth analysis of the movie.


My region 2 copy is different. The commentary is by Ken Barnes, a film historian, and the documentary is from the UK, Anatomy Of A Classic, presented by Barry Norman.