Are my ears deceiving me?

[Holy Zoo]

So, I finally got a new turntable setup (Music Hall MMF-5), along with a standalone cd recorder (Sony CDR-W33, with SBM), and I've "cut" my first two CDRs from vinyl (Supertramp's Famous Last Words, and Herb Alper's Whipped Cream (mono).

Afterwards, I synced the vinyl and the corresponding CD, matched levels, and did a head-to-head comparison... and...

I can't tell the difference between the two.

So, either:

A) my ears aren't what they used to be
B) the Sony SBM does a damn good job of capturing nearly every nuance to the point of them sounding identical to my ears
C) my ears were never what I though they were

:)

Has anyone done similiar experiements?

For what it's worth, the resulting cds sound fantastic. Very yummy. Warm, delightful even.

[Holy Zoo]

68 views and no comments? :)


I know that in the audiophile community it's sort of showing your soft underbelly to admit that you can't hear the difference between... well... nearly two of anything (remasters, tubes, interconnects, etc).

But, don't be afraid to call me a tinears, it won't hurt my pride. :)

I am truly curious, though, if anyone else has done the same experiment, and can post what they've heard (or not) in terms of differences between the source vinyl and the cdr they made from it.

thanks!

[Steve Hoffman]

Holy,

Michael Fremer has a great CD-R that he made from some of his best vinyl, and that CD-R has floated around the audiophile community for some time now.

It is indeed possible to make a great sounding CD-R from your turntable. A lot of fun, actually.

If you have the old Shure Bros. Test LP record that has some pink noise on it, make yourself a CD-R of that, and switch back and forth, adjusting for level. Do they sound tonally alike? If so, your system ROCKS. That usually seperates the men from the boys.

[jkerr]

How are you comparing? You say they're both synched. If you're switching back and forth quickly, try listening to a whole song or two then try the other. Could be the difference is so subtle that quick switching won't reveal anything. Also if you're using speakers try headphones too.

Of course maybe you wouldn't want to find any difference! Once you know what to listen for, you'll be aware of it always!

[PsychFan]

I've made countless CD-Rs from my vinyl, mostly so that I can listen to LPs, in effect, on the go (in the car, for instance).

So I rarely play the resulting CD-Rs in my main system (where, naturally, I play my LPs). I've just never had any need or desire to. On the few times that I have, I can remember being surprised by how close the sound can seem to the actual LP ... but personally I do always hear a small difference. There seems to be a little less air, a little less "presence," on the CD-R. Less realism. I'd have to do a more thorough listening test before I could get more specific.

But, Holy Zoo ... You're using totally different equipment, and your CD-Rs could be that much closer to the actual vinyl sound. I find it hard to believe they'd be identical to the LPs, though, since the very process of transferring sound to "CD quality" on a CD-R disc alters and "compresses," for lack of a more specific term, the sound.

HOWEVER ... Despite all this, listening to my CD-Rs in the car, I am always amazed at how much less fatiguing they are than most standard store-bought CDs. It's definitely the next best thing to having a turntable in the car.

[Jeffrey]

Hi HZ,

Compliments again on the killer board, it rocks!

I'm a proud owner of the CDR-W33 and it also rocks. I use it to backup studio reels, live concert recordings from the 60's, and vinyl transfers. I have found that a mint Mofi Lp transfer will result in a cdr superior to most anything out there. Killer sound wo/ raggin' out my Mofi & DCC Lp's. I have found the a/b playback comparison to be real close.

The Music Never Stops,
Jeffrey

[Holy Zoo]

Originally posted by jkerr
How are you comparing? You say they're both synched. If you're switching back and forth quickly, try listening to a whole song or two then try the other. Could be the difference is so subtle that quick switching won't reveal anything. Also if you're using speakers try headphones too.

I was doing quick switching. I'll give the "whole song" approach tonight and see what I find...



Of course maybe you wouldn't want to find any difference! Once you know what to listen for, you'll be aware of it always!

That's very true! Part of me wonders why I'm looking. Right now I'm very happy with the end result, and that's all that matters, right?

Then there's that part of me that wants to hang on to that "vinyl is better than cds" notion, which I've subscribed to for a long time, even as far back as 1984 when I did my first comparison between a cd and it's vinyl counterpart. Aside: it was Duran Duran's Rio, fyi.... and later the same experiment repeated later with a Steeley Dan album -- in both cases the vinyl killed the cd. Shocked me, too - I wasn' t expecting that at all. You should have seen the record store's cashier when I wanted to return the Duran Duran cd because my record sounded better!

I'm now pretty sure the radical difference in sound I was hearing was the mastering, not the format. Well, it's either that, or the vinyl itself adds something to the mix that's just magical, and - wonder of wonders - that "something magical" can be recorded to CD.

jeff

[David Powell]

Not long ago I made a CDR, containing some of my favorite LP cuts, to use as a test disc when shopping around in various stores for a new set of speakers. I found this very useful, since around 50% of my listening time is spent listening to vinyl.

[TSmithPage]

OK, this is a good place for me to post my compression question. It is my "understanding" that one of the major differences between vinyl and CDs is that the engineers used to have to compress the sound on vinyl because it could not handle the full dynamic range, but that CDs do not have this limitation (I know that LPs such as Telarc's 1812 Overture are an exception as are some high quality vinyl pressings). That said, it would seem that a vinyl CDR would still lack the dynamic range of an uncompressed CD. My question- do I accurately understand compression and what is meant when this term is discussed? If so, why am I still reading about certain newly mastered recordings (the new Jackson 5 remasters have been mentioned) as suffering from compression? Why would engineers still compress the sound of recordings in this day and age?

[Grant]

Hi.

I have transferred literally hundreds of LPs and 45s to CD-R using the PC method using various softare, soundcards, interconnects, and cartridges. I will say that all of these things can make the difference on producing accurate transfers, including bit-depth, dithering and noise shaping.

I can proudly say that all else being equal, during A/B tests, I can make CD-R's froim vinyl that sound 100% identical.

Problem is, most people work in 16-bit. I work in 32-bit float in Cool Edit. I use noise shaping too, which is what SBM is. The soundcard makes a big difference.

Holy Zoo, you are NOT deaf!

[Grant]

Originally posted by TSmithPage
[B]Why would engineers still compress the sound of recordings in this day and age?

Loudness.

[Sckott]

Originally posted by Grant


Loudness.

Exactly.

[Steve Hoffman]

All LP's have to be cut using a certain set of "rules and regs." These keep most LP's from going too crazy, sound wise.

Since there really are NO rules in digital recording, anything goes. So, we see too much bass, too much top end, too much compression, etc. LP's STILL have to be cut with the good ol' rules and regs. We just like that sound. It sounds "lifelike". Some CD's can sound that way too, but the engineer has to restrain his or her self from GOING CRAZY with the knobs, especially in this digital age....

[AudioGirl]

Wow... You guys are sooo smart!!

This could be one of the most interesting threads I've read so far... Geeze, I am tempted to do some LP transfering just to see what they sound like :p

Maybe when I get a break from checking out the forum... :D

Thanks for the interesting conversation!:D

[Grant]

Audiogirl. just know that your CD-R's should end up sounding like the LPs they came from, but clean, if you choose to clean them up.