Looking for a portable recorder

[Geoman076]

I recently got 2nd row tickets to go see one of my favorite bands, Wilco. Being that they allow taping at their shows, I wold like to try my hand at taping this show. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good portable recorder, and/or taping techniques?? Thanks!!

George

[ArneW]

Geoman,

this a pretty good place to start if you're looking for advice:

http://www.geocities.com/Oysterhead00/stealth.html

also check out the DAT-Heads archive:

http://www.solorb.com/dat-heads/digests/

Good Luck,

Arne

[Geoman076]

Thanks alot!!

[Dan C]

Does anyone have any experience with Giant Squid miniature mics?
http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/

If they're as good as they say, these and a simple Mini Disc recorder could be a low cost and low risk way to go (you don't want to get bounced from the show 'cause you sneaked in a bulky recorder!)

Dan C

[Gerry]

What's your price range? What's more important, fidelity or portability? Is stealth an issue, are you planning on making a habit of this with bands that don't allow taping?

[-=Rudy=-]

Brings back memories of those Sony TCD-D7 portable DAT machines. :D Also, Sony at one time also made a near audiophile-grade stereo recording Walkman. Not perfect, but might be available on eBay if you're looking to save a few bucks.

[Joe Koz]

Have you thought of trying a mini disc set up. I herd a concert recorded on mini disc at a record store I frequent. I was floored on the sound quality this guy got with it. He wore a hat that had two mikes in the visor.

[Bolero]

I have a friend with a Sharp minidisc recorder, he built his own mics that fit into a ballpoint pen shell, cost about $10 in parts.

the shows he has recorded sound incredible, & it's a very small setup.

if I can find his webpage link I'll put it up, he explains how to build the mics etc.

[Joe Koz]

Originally posted by Bolero
I have a friend with a Sharp minidisc recorder, he built his own mics that fit into a ballpoint pen shell, cost about $10 in parts.

the shows he has recorded sound incredible, & it's a very small setup.

if I can find his webpage link I'll put it up, he explains how to build the mics etc.

The Sharps are the one's to have for live recording. Their quiet and you can adjust the recording levels on the fly.

[NoTinEar]

Originally posted by Rudy@A&MCorner
Brings back memories of those Sony TCD-D7 portable DAT machines. :D Also, Sony at one time also made a near audiophile-grade stereo recording Walkman. Not perfect, but might be available on eBay if you're looking to save a few bucks.

Well first of all he said they allow recording at their shows, so size shouldn't be an issue, sense he wont get kicked out for bringing a recording device in. To add further info to the above statement the model is WM-D6. I sold these and have used these and with the right mics, etc you can get an extremely satisfying and quality sound. The real trick if your going to use this is to have a great playback deck to use to downmix it to whatever format your going too. You should be able to find them still NIB around the net if you look. On the other hand if your into digital in and can find a d7 or the later d8 DAT unit used it may be around the same price, so it's all up to you. Good luck and have fun.

[RetroSmith]

Originally posted by Rudy@A&MCorner
Brings back memories of those Sony TCD-D7 portable DAT machines. :D Also, Sony at one time also made a near audiophile-grade stereo recording Walkman. Not perfect, but might be available on eBay if you're looking to save a few bucks.


>>>>>Rudy, do you mean the Sony DAT -TCD-D3? I have one of those.

It works fine, but the Battery is dead, which makes it kinda hard to use as a portable.

[-=Rudy=-]

Could have been the D3...I know there was one really good model (D3?), then a later one came along (D7 or D8??) that wasn't quite as good.

It sucks that Sony used proprietary batteries on some of their equipment. You could probably rig up some sort of battery pack, but that's more to lug around. Even if the band does allow taping, I would still rather carry something conveniently small. After all, I want to enjoy the concert and not be encumbered by a large device. I don't expect to walk in lugging my reel deck on my shoulder! :D

[RetroSmith]

Yea, I dont blame you!! You know, it looks like a minidisk recorder is just the ticket for you.
Cheap too. My friend has one that He uses to tape concerts and the tapes sound fantastic, most of them. I think the trick is to use a pro microphone . They make really good ones that clip onto your jacket collar and plug into the unit.

[-=Rudy=-]

One band I want to see live is BR549, and they have an active "taping' community that they encourage. One thing about BR549 is that they have literally hundreds of cover songs in their repertoire, from just about any musical style. If they make it back to Ann Arbor or Detroit, I definitely need to go see them. I'd have to set myself with a good taping rig by then.

I would assume the MD recorders have proper level controls on them. I've had a couple of portables over the years that had automatic level controls on them.

[aashton]

Originally posted by Rudy@A&MCorner
Could have been the D3...I know there was one really good model (D3?), then a later one came along (D7 or D8??) that wasn't quite as good.

It sucks that Sony used proprietary batteries on some of their equipment. You could probably rig up some sort of battery pack, but that's more to lug around. Even if the band does allow taping, I would still rather carry something conveniently small. After all, I want to enjoy the concert and not be encumbered by a large device. I don't expect to walk in lugging my reel deck on my shoulder! :D

I have a D3 - lovely bit of kit - just a scaled down VCR machine really - totally agree on the battery front though :agree: - If I could take a trolley in with me I'd use my Nagra Recorder - now there we are talking solid build :)

All the best - Andrew

[Joe Koz]

Originally posted by Rudy@A&MCorner
I would assume the MD recorders have proper level controls on them. I've had a couple of portables over the years that had automatic level controls on them.

Rudy, look at the Sharp's they seem to be the favorites among the live recording crowd. As I posted above the Sharp's are real quiet and they let you adjust recording levels on the fly.

[RetroSmith]

Anybody know where i can get two working batteries for my D3?

[paul cbc]

Geoman,

If there is a pro audio shop nearby, you might consider renting a nice dat recorder(HHB, Tascam, Marantz) and mics from them. If you're that close to stacks you might want to use some attenuation(should be selectable on recorder) depending on the mics you use.
As with any taping, have fun and enjoy the show!

paul

[ArneW]

(...) You know, it looks like a minidisk recorder is just the ticket for you (...)

In fact, I've switched from a Sony MZ-R30 Minidisc recorder to a PCM-M1 portable DAT. The problem with MD recorders is their limited recording time of 80 minutes if you're not willing to compromise on the recording quality. With a portable DAT and 90 meter tapes (which means three full hours of recording time), you set up the rig once and then forget it and enjoy the show. With an MD, you end up looking nervously at the unit's counter every other minute: "How many minutes do I have left?" "Will there be enough time for the next song or should I change discs?" - I just couldn't stand it any more.

BTW, I have been using German OKM I omnidirectional mics (they're said to use modified Sennheiser capsules) very successfully in the last couple of years, but I am planning on getting a pair of cardioids. Omnis just don't do the trick from row 10 or so backwards. Too much crowd noise. I have considered Giant Squid mics too (because of their low price), but since Sound Professionals have lowered their prices, their Audio Technica-based cardioids (http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=120&template=mics) may be an even better deal.

Arne

PS. I have prepared a small sound snippet of one of the gigs I recorded last year with the OKM I/PCM-M1 setup from about row 15 in a concert hall (160 kbps MP3, not a whole song but just a few seconds so you can hear what to expect sonically from your own "audience recordings"). If you're interested, send me a PM with your e-mail address.

[Bolero]

fwiw here's a link to that minidisc setup page:


http://www.burak.ca/live/

[metalbob]

Originally posted by Bolero
I have a friend with a Sharp minidisc recorder, he built his own mics that fit into a ballpoint pen shell, cost about $10 in parts.

the shows he has recorded sound incredible, & it's a very small setup.

if I can find his webpage link I'll put it up, he explains how to build the mics etc.

I actually built mics similar to this with a Bic Pen tube and some mic capsules. Definitely a fun project, but a lot of headaches. Luckily, I had several friends familiar with the technology. Keep in mind that you will need a battery powered pre-amp type box between the mics and the deck because the mic inputs aren't getting enough juice to stop the mics from distorting. It is fine if it is with acoustic performances, but if that volume gets too loud, your recording is finished. Trust me.

One of my mics has since broken and I just haven't had the patience to rebuilt it yet. I used them once at a performance for the band Galactic that allowed taping. You would not believe how curious and interested the guys around me were when I told them I built my own mic and preamp box when they had spent hundreds on theirs! One of them even plugged into the lineout on my deck into his. Excellent recording from a lamp over the bar under the balcony!

[Bolero]

yeah, he had the same issues: what he did was take an empty 9v battery case & built a circuit in that....then he just plugged it into a 9v battery for mic power, and recorded into the "line-in" instead of mic input: the mics didn't distort at loud rock shows, & the battery in the MD lasted a lot longer because it didn't have to power the mics.

I'm debating about getting a MD or waiting to hear how the jamstation thing works with another friend.

[metalbob]

Exactly. Optimum set up is to run it through the line-in jack. The only problem is getting levels. I have an older Sony recorder that not only doesn't fit more than 80 minutes stereo (unlike the newer ones that compress everything smaller if you want), you can't adjust the volume level while it is recording. You have to pause the deck! It doesn't help that the level meter is black and the screen is NOT lit up. It makes it difficult to stealth the deck and not have it seen while you are tinkering with it. It is good to get a level from the opening band and go from there. If you put it on "automatic" levels, the sound is a little bit flatter because it crunches down all the peaks. In my experience, it is probably better to shoot a bit low, because you can always increase the volume when you transfer it to CD or tape later (if you choose to do so).

[Bolero]

cool info!

what we did is record at line level maxed out ( 30 on the Sharp unit), it works out just right. still some headroom but loud enough that you don't have to bring the level up too much in "mastering". it is also very good at not overloading too, we recorded some really loud gtr in a small club, as well as an earsplitting snare drum, and it worked great!! I was surprised the snare didn't overload it, my ears were taking some real abuse.

prior to this we used levels @25, but it was way too quiet on playback.

*edit*

as a comparison, another guy I knew recorded a Yes show with a DAT & a pair of $300 mics, and it sounded like crap. dropouts from the shoddy connections he must have had, and kick drum overloading the mics like crazy. unlistenable & unsalvageable.

[metalbob]

Originally posted by Bolero
cool info!

what we did is record at line level maxed out ( 30 on the Sharp unit), it works out just right. still some headroom but loud enough that you don't have to bring the level up too much in "mastering". it is also very good at not overloading too, we recorded some really loud gtr in a small club, as well as an earsplitting snare drum, and it worked great!! I was surprised the snare didn't overload it, my ears were taking some real abuse.

prior to this we used levels @25, but it was way too quiet on playback.

*edit*

as a comparison, another guy I knew recorded a Yes show with a DAT & a pair of $300 mics, and it sounded like crap. dropouts from the shoddy connections he must have had, and kick drum overloading the mics like crazy. unlistenable & unsalvageable.

I have several friends, including one who unfortunately perished taping the now-famous Great White show in Warwick, RI, who are big DAT freaks. One has mics that probably cost $900 and makes great recordings. These guys are PROs and get these huge decks in some of the biggest venues and rarely get caught. Not sure how they do it, but they come out great most of the time. It just seems like way too much equipment to be lugging around strapped to your body like a suicide bomber. One of the bigger "field recording companies" makes a box that will hold your deck and includes a battery box that has an input for mics. I can't remember the company, but it seemed like a pretty novel idea and keeps everything organized instead of a huge mess.