Pink Floyd

[Andy]

Has anyone listened to the imports from Japan? The mini LP sleeve is kinda neat, but 30 bucks for a little piece of cardboard with picture on it is a little spendy.

[Dave]

Hi,

I know lots have stated that they're nothing special in fact identical to the standard US. pressing with the exception of the East/West pressings from Japan.

[Sckott]

There isn't, No. The collectibility is nice, but if you want something really special, hunt down some Japanese copies (Mint) of WYWH and The Wall on vinyl, or hell, maybe some mint US copies (later pressings) of the vinyl counterparts.

You'll get the same but BIGGER visual enjoyment, and you might not have to spend a lot...although for PF, you COULD!

What's in the JPN die-cut packages are what you can get from the Capitol domestics, at normal prices.

If you're a Floyd/Visual freak, get Storm's hard or softcover of "Mind Over Matter" co-compiled and written by Storm Thorgerson. The stories and the really FULL color artwork is stunning, big and true to photographer's form. Ain't no Japanese $40 CD gonna look like the art that's in that book. Price is about 35 pounds, or should be under $30 in most bookstores, usually special order.
This Amazon page (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1860742688/qid=1011308608/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_11_1/103-3759979-1667044) says $21 or used for $13.

Then, go get the domestics, LOOK into the book at all the full-sized album cover artowrk (and some unused outtake art for stuff like Animals) and trip out beyond 3rd Bardo.

Might I add, that I finally got a hold of the Syd Barrett Harvest/UK box set "Crazy Diamond", and I love it. Highly reccomended for people who've gone beyond a passing Floyd fanatisism.

[Kym]

Echoes sounds wonderful with its 24-bit remastered sound, but that means the current remasters (jewelcase or mini-LP) sound inferior in comparison, which
SUCKS.

Kym

[TommyTunes]

I've purchased the set of Japanese CD reissues and can tell you they are definitely the same as the US versions. I wholeheartedly agree with Sckott about the collectablility of the Japanese vinyl LP issues of WYWH and the Wall. IMO the best sounding vesion of The Wall is the original UK vinyl release. EMI used the US Mastering Lab's master so it has the warmth of the US version and benefits from being pressed on the quieter European vinyl. I find the highly regarded Japanese pressing to be very detailed but much to "solid state" sounding, although the bass can't be beat.

[Gary]

Very true, Kym. The remaster is great compared to the stock releases. Could it be that the rest of the Floyd catalogue is on its way?!? Hope so!

But to me, the new remaster is very much a modern remaster - up front, bold, in your face. Gilmours vocals on WYWH are almost lost in the mix. If they had turned up the volume on the instruments a bit more, you would not be able to hear him clearly.

But they are thoughtfully EQ'd as Sckott said earlier on another (DCC) post.

Still, I like the new remasters.

In my opinion, the MFSL UD1's are the still the best versions available on CD. They are more laid back, 'etherial', slightly spacy, "floyd" sounding. You know what I mean? And there is much more depth to them!

I wish Steve could do the SACD versions.........

[Beagle]

So they've tinkered with the mix to make it appear to sound better? That's a no-no, no? Sounds like the old Mo-Fi LPs where they jacked the lows and highs to make it "better". After all, who wants to pay a premium amount for something that sounds the same as your regular release. But who gives them the right to override the original intent of the producer/engineer/band? Sax put the master tapes as is through tubes and onto the CD. Isn't that the way it should be. When I hear a significant difference from the original LP I get suspicious.

You got the Sony remasters that indicated they were remastered "under the bands supervision". So one would assume you have the definitive version. Now you get this Echoes thing reshaped. Just something to draw more money out of the pockets of fans?

Too bad Sony doesn't have the Floyd stuff anymore. We'd probably have SACD versions out already.

[YaQuin]

Gosh you guys are hard to please! Picky, picky, picky.

I currently own the japanese mini-lp editions of Pink Floyd DSOTM, WYWH, Animals and The Wall. I have also owned the UD1 Mofi versions of DSOTM and The Wall plus the SBM MasterSound version of WYWH. I had a chance to do an extensive A/B of these discs against each other and here's my opinion.

DSOTM:

UD1 Mofi - Liquidy smooth sound makes this version easy to listen to (check out the clock bells on TIME and the synthesizers on ANY COLOUR YOU LIKE). Dynamic range is very pleasing especially noticeable on ON THE RUN. Presence of mid-range is excellent, very noticeable on GREAT GIG IN THE SKY. Her voice seems to smoothly fade into the piano and yet remain distinguisheable. However, bass IMHO is overly boomy and seems to be overpower both mid and upper frequencies (check out the drums at the end of ANY COLOUR YOU LIKE and at the end of ECLIPSE).

Jap. Mini-LP- I think this is identical to the 1992 Doug Sax remastering. Soundstage is much wider compared with the MoFi version. The balance of the frequency range sounds more normal to me (the bass frequencies appear to be not as empasized on this release thereby sounding more balanced to my ears). The midrange seems thinner and doesn't have as much presence as the MoFi version but is not bad by any means (the voice on Great Gig seems to be more 'behind' the band as opposed to 'in front of' the band). This version sounds more digital and is especially noticeable (in comparison only) on the GREAT GIG IN THE SKY, where here voice doesn't blend as smoothly with the piano in quiet passages. The bells on TIME do not seem as smooth but contain all the detail of the MoFi version.

DSOTM Conclusion: After extensive comparison I chose the Mini-LP version over MoFi. I liked the dynamic range better and also I liked the frequency balance better. There were no suprises or dissapointments. Doug Sax performed and excellent mastering job. Each version is excellent, and each is superior in its own respect. It really boils down to personal preference. If you really want MoFi get the UD1 but you will pay a lot.

WYWH:

SBM Mastersound- Nothing special compared with the current remasters. In fact even though both are mastered by Doug Sax, the MasterSound version sounds overly boosted especially noticeable on the bass in SOYCDiamond P1 and WTTMachine intro. The soundstage is wide but not as wide as on the current remasters. The dynamic range sounds more compressed, noticeable on all songs. Overall a bit bright and digital sounding and overly contrived.

Jap. Mini-LP- Soundstage is nice and wide, but not overly fiddled-with. Dynamic range is pristinely balanced with no frequencies overbalancing the others (WTTMachine intro and outro). Although midrange appears to be slightly affected by 'digititis' noticeable mostly in quiet passages (quiet sounds seem to 'drop off' a little quickly).

WYWH Conlusion: IMHO the Mini-LP mastering wins hands-down for overall listenablility. It is the one I can listen to more often without being annoyed because of its more neutral and natural sound.

The Wall:

UD1 Mofi- What can I say but liquidy smooth sounding, incredible dynamic range and nice soundstage. However, again bass seems to be overly boosted with respect to the other frequencies (drums on ABITWall P1, piano/bass on DLMNow and bass/drums onRLHell). Dynamic range is superior on this release (TTIce, Mother, ABITWall P3, BTBBHome and ITFlesh). Mid frequency presence is excellent (expecially on GBBSky, NHome, CNumb and TSMGOn). Soundstage though doesn't seem as wide as it should be especially noticeable on the intro to OOMTCOn.

Jap. Mini-LP- Slightly more digital sounding but by no means bad. Soundstage is wider, dynamic range slightly less dynamic, balance of frequencies appears to be more normal sounding, and midrange not as smooth compared with the UD1 version. However, I think this is the beauty of the Doug Sax remastering. IMHO he just seems to have the ear for what PF should sound like. Notice the soundstage on OOMTCon, you can follow the woman through his apartment and place her in space front/back and left/right. Frequency balance is more natural sounding with no nasty suprises. It does suffer more from digitis in the quiet midrange frequencies but only compared with UD1.

The Wall Conclusion: Just like DSOTM each release is superior in its own respect. I chose the Mini-LP version because it just seems easier to listen to over long periods of time. It may be more neutral but is easier to get along with for that reason. Doug Sax does it again. Don't pay all that money for the MoFi like I did unless you just want it for the collectability.

IMHO this is a fair and balanced comparison. Hope this helps.

[Dave]

It really comes down to personal taste on this one I think.

I myself would agree with Gary, for the same reasons, and would choose the UD1's everytime as the remasters sound kind of, but not totally, sterile to me. They just don't seem to have that liquidy warmth that I love so much.:D

But I also agree that MFSL shouldn't have boosted the bass frequencies so much.

[AudioGirl]

Wow!! You guys are major Pink Floyd experts!!

I got a hold of a UK LP box set a few years back... Pretty disappointing audio wise... Although the package was pretty to look at.

Hummmmm, I'd be interested in hearing Steve Hoffman masterings of some of Pink Floyd's older stuff...

No screechy highs or overloaded bass... Just Sweet, tube warmth... & Magic Midrange!! :D

What do you say Steve? Any possibility of seeing any Pink Floyd on either DCC or S&P?

[Geoff Cosier]

If this was the set from the around 1997, I believe it was all DIGITAL! No wonder you may have been disappointed. Floyd apparently are only interested in releasing digital versions of their music. Which is weird, given that they use Tim de Paravicini to modify / maintain their analogue tape recorder! I too would love to hear of a Steve H. reissue of the early Floyd albums...!;)

[pigmode]

I think Echos is more remix than remaster. It's different.

I took my MoFi vinyl DSOTM down to audition some equipment, and I can safely say now that I'd like to trash my remastered CD.;)

[Patrick M]

Originally posted by pigmode
I think Echos is more remix than remaster. It's different.

None of it should be remixed. Crossfaded and edited, yes. What in particular leads you believe it is a remix?

[pigmode]

My bad, excuse my ignorance. I guess remixing would entail going back to the multitrack tape? I guess the main point was that they did more tweaking than is usual.

[Kym]

Speaking of Echoes, does anyone know if the 4-LP vinyl set has been released yet? I know it was postponed a couple of times now. I'm curious about the booklet, if it's been hard-bound like the Pulse set.

Even though they're my favorite band, I'm getting kinda sick of that Echoes TV commercial. If I hear that horrible "over two-and-a-half-hours of pure sonic intoxication" one more time...

Kym

[Matt]

This is just hypothesis that I've yet to test, but if the original Pink Floyd albums dubbed work parts down on to the master tape (like most cross-fades are done; I'm thinking of "Innervisions" and other Stevie Wonder albums), could they have gone back to the work parts for Echoes and used these for the mastering?

I haven't heard Echoes yet, but to my understanding, it's been given new edits and cross-fades.

I'm I way off here, or is this likely?

[Dave]

After extensive listening to both Echos and the UD1 DSOTM I can honestly say that I will probably never play Echos again. Way too much compression (ouch).

Funny thing though, none of you have mentioned that the song Money is faster (tempo) than the UD1.

Does anyone know which is the correct tempo?

Different masters maybe? (shrug)

[Sam]

Pigmode has said it all. All you guys comparing cd's. Ho Ho Ho. Listen so some good vinyl. Try CBS Mastersound Half-speed vinyl for the BEST wywh around. And yes, the VINYL from MOFI of Dark side will SMOKE ALL cd versions around. Sorry to hurt all your feelings for those who think that digital MUST be better than vinyl because that's what you were told. Just listen my friends. Try to find someone who will let you hear a decent vinyl setup. Let's talk about VINYL FLOYD DIFFERENCES. But I know, not many here have turntables. Sad, sad.

[Dave]

Well Sam,

After listening to both the vinyl MFSL and the UD1 side by side what is your conclusion and please be specific?

Or have you done this yet?

[PsychFan]

Originally posted by Sam
And yes, the VINYL from MOFI of Dark side will SMOKE ALL cd versions around. ... Let's talk about VINYL FLOYD DIFFERENCES.


Speaking strictly about Dark Side, I've not heard the MoFi LP, but I've done careful comparisons of:

The original UK Harvest LP
The original US Harvest LP
The MoFi CD (UDII, I THINK ... I've since sold it)
The "anniversary" slipcase-edition CD

The "anniversary" CD is really, really good. I thought it beat the original US LP, and definitely the MoFi CD ... It's crisp, clean, and rather airy. I like it lots.

My favorite of all is the UK Harvest LP. The low end really pumps, and the midrange can't be beat. When those voices come in for the first time ("Breathe ... breathe in the air ..."), they really COME AT YOU. It's just breathtaking, in my humble opinion.

I had been interested in checking out the MoFi LP, but folks whose opinions I trust and respect advised me that the UK was even better. And it can even be had for less coin ... fairly common on eBay. I even bought two copies so I could have a "backup."

That "anniversary" CD is not to be sneezed at, though. And actually I think I've read that the current, commonly available Capitol CD is the same master ... tho' if I'm wrong I hope someone corrects me.

[reidc]

Boy,
So many DSOTM versions- so little time. I have on CeeDee- the original Harvest Japan version- which was the best avaialable in its time, then a UD1 MFSL, and a 25th anniversary in the box, and the recent mini-Lp from Japan. My take is the UD1 version.

As for good ol' vinyl, its a tough call- as my turntable has needed a B&O Cartridge for way too long now. I have 2 MFSL's(1 sealed/ other mint), and a Japanese Pro-Use series. I can't even remember how these compared! Any opinions of the Pro-Use versions?

[lennonfan]

as far as DarkSide vinyl, I have the pro-use and I've heard the MFSL and I think the MFSL is a tad better, it sounds a little less compressed. To be honest however, I don't think DarkSide is served well by the vinyl medium...because, like classical, it has way too many ultra-quiet spots that bring out the flaws of vinyl like a magnifying glass. I would, however, like to hear the UHQR. I have the Sgt. Pepper UHQR and really like it, tho it's a tad bright. The regular single-issue MFSL of that is the best I've heard..
oh, back to floyd;)
If you ever get the chance to hear the quad 8-track from the UK, that is the ultimate. Many copies making the rounds these days are courtesy of yours truly, through a good friend who owns the orig. (on ebay, I've only seen it appear twice....and the 2nd copy went for around $720 (!). I have dark side as quad vinyl (UK), domestic (horrible), 8-track, quad 8-track (both UK and US), cassette, orig. Japan cd, and MFSL cd.
I hate that album! LOL j/k!

[reidc]

Hey Lennonfan,
I have seen the Quad 8 track conversion "offered" in certain places, and will get it sooner or later. I would think this piece would be stunning- as would WYWH!

[Gary]

Dumb question time..........

How do you play these quad 8 versions? Are they on a CD?

If you have copies, I should email you, I think............ :cool:

[Sckott]

Lennonfan is on the money with the MFSL DSOTM. Thanks, Stan Ricker!

The Quad 8's and Q4's are actively converted to DTS sound by lotsa people on the net, one of which is Tab Patterson (you can look him up), in qhich you MUST have a receiver (or preamp) supporting DTS and an optical in, and a CD player with an optical out. You can also use a DVD player with DTS capabilities using the AC-3 RCA Coax, but the 1st way works best. Many of these conversions sound better than from a Q8 deck, which was push-pully 8-Track based techology. You remember those stereo 8's don't you?? The conversions are normally played using a modded Ampex 4 track (8 channels) deck with the right track sequence topology. Best way to suck every drop from those old production cart-type tapes.

The Q8 and Q4 quads do sound quite neato. As a DTS conversion (and for good reason) you need to have a bonifide DTS playback chain. If you don't, don't bother. :(