View Full Version : High-end fuses
taters
10-28-2007, 03:51 PM
Are they worth the 35.00 or is this just another way to unload your wallett?
Are they worth the 35.00 or is this just another way to unload your wallett?
If you are using them as an AC power fuse, they can't do anything but lighten your wallet. All a fuse does is pass electricity, which is typically on the primary side of a transformer and so has no wire between it and the secondary in any event. Even if it was on the secondary side, it is still just volts and amps at that stage. As long as the required volts and amps are present, the gear will perform as it should. The real concern would be just how sure are you that these fuses are rated properly and would a manufacturer honor their warranty if they were used or would they consider that a modification to their design?
I read the same bit the other day but couldn't post due to my sides hurting from all the laughter. Then someone mentioned using them as a fuse for a tweeter in a speaker system. OK, now that changes something. In that application, their is an audio signal going through the fuse. I haven't seen a speaker which was fused with a glass fuse in ages but I did own a couple pair in the 80's which did. Polk Audio used to use them in their speakers back when they put them together solidly. Today, I can't think of any maker that does that. It isn't a bad idea from a practical standpoint if you are going to play the speakers super loud but it does effect the sound quality and at what is likely the most damaging place to put them. I'd still be concerned about their effectiveness. Personally, I'd never use a fused speaker system in my home rig if the goal was high fidelity. I have modded speakers for customers in the past and removing protection cicuits was one of the steps taken.
-Bill
blakep
10-28-2007, 05:59 PM
To be honest, I have no experience with the "audiophile" fuses. I've read a lot of posts from people using them that have been very positive and have been tempted to take the plunge but just haven't done it.
I don't really have much difficulty believing that they could be a fairly major improvement over the standard fuse, though, as I have replaced glass fuses in my system in the line conditioner and CD player with ceramics, which are readily and cheaply available if you want to experiment first for little money to see if you can hear a difference. The difference was very noticeable to me, particularly with the CD player. So, if you want to experiment for $5-$10, ceramics are a cheap option to the more expensive versions.
Randy W
10-28-2007, 06:08 PM
I bought a used hi-fi tuning set for my 3.6 Maggies - smoother sound than the stock glass fuses.
visprashyana
10-29-2007, 11:23 AM
If you are using them as an AC power fuse, they can't do anything but lighten your wallet. All a fuse does is pass electricity, which is typically on the primary side of a transformer and so has no wire between it and the secondary in any event. Even if it was on the secondary side, it is still just volts and amps at that stage. As long as the required volts and amps are present, the gear will perform as it should. The real concern would be just how sure are you that these fuses are rated properly and would a manufacturer honor their warranty if they were used or would they consider that a modification to their design?
I read the same bit the other day but couldn't post due to my sides hurting from all the laughter. Then someone mentioned using them as a fuse for a tweeter in a speaker system. OK, now that changes something. In that application, their is an audio signal going through the fuse. I haven't seen a speaker which was fused with a glass fuse in ages but I did own a couple pair in the 80's which did. Polk Audio used to use them in their speakers back when they put them together solidly. Today, I can't think of any maker that does that. It isn't a bad idea from a practical standpoint if you are going to play the speakers super loud but it does effect the sound quality and at what is likely the most damaging place to put them. I'd still be concerned about their effectiveness. Personally, I'd never use a fused speaker system in my home rig if the goal was high fidelity. I have modded speakers for customers in the past and removing protection cicuits was one of the steps taken.
-Bill
I find this all reasonable, but it still lacks personal listening and experience. I can tell you that the direction of the fuse will absolutely make a sonic difference. Wouldn't this be the same argument as to why power cords wouldn't make a difference?
I find this all reasonable, but it still lacks personal listening and experience. I can tell you that the direction of the fuse will absolutely make a sonic difference. Wouldn't this be the same argument as to why power cords wouldn't make a difference?
Yes, it is virtually the same argument but involves a couple of wrinkles. The fuse is not doing anything but passing voltage and current onto the power supply of the device. All products should be designed with adequate power supplies to work from wall voltage or they are clearly defective. I mean, that is their application. That is their function to isolate the electronics from the wall and stabilize the power before distributing it at various levels throughout the component. The fuse simply allows these voltages to pass over it and then it fails if there is current being drawn, meaning a short in the component or a severe overvoltage. In any case, it is to prevent a fire from occuring. Not something that I would want to mess with and have anything less than UL rated.
The same goes for power cords but power cords are never intended to be used in the signal path, so need no second look. Just as the power supply is specified to be adequate for the product by its engineers, the power cord is as well. The only effect that a power cord could have on most components would be if it was too small for the job and no one would supply one that undersized. You can over size them as nothing happens beyond the amount of current drawn by the gear. So sizing a power cord beyond that of the wall outlet/circuits capability is fruitless. No more current can ever enter it, period. The only effect that could cause a problem with some components, mostly digital gear is RFI/EMI and a foil shield will prenet that. Cords that come with computers and some DVD players, etc include this. That might actually be a common omission from the run of the mill units but I have not paid so much attention to it as it hasn't proven to be a big issue. The big issue for me is the "run of the mill units", I'd get the hardware sorted out before worrying endlessly about connecting them. Priorities, dude ;-).
-Bill
triple
10-30-2007, 01:00 AM
All products should be designed with adequate power supplies to work from wall voltage or they are clearly defective.
There should be peace and love in the world. However, this is not always the case. Therefore, the world is clearly defective.
Goran
Even if it was on the secondary side, it is still just volts and amps at that stage.
I've noticed obvious audible differences. I'm not talking about interpretive ambiguous observations either, like "improved soundstage". Without using any descriptive terms, the character of sound changed.
You should give it a try and let me know what you think.
http://www.stereophile.com/powerlineaccessories/907fuse/
Where are these fuses, anyway? The only ones I remember seeing were at the back of my old Technics receiver.
I suppose you must open the case of the CDP or amp? Take apart the speaker, perhaps?
I suppose you must open the case of the CDP or amp? Take apart the speaker, perhaps?
Of the vintage speakers I know of the fuses were external. On the back of a pair of Fishers from the 60's there is a diagram for placing them "midway" in the speaker wire between the amp and the speaker. In new gear it requires cracking it open, which I'm sure voids warranties.
There should be peace and love in the world. However, this is not always the case. Therefore, the world is clearly defective.
Goran
No argument there, only I would direct the statement to the worlds inhabitants and not to the world iteslf ;-). If you are implying that a power cord or a fuse can fix an inadequate power supply, however, you have some 'splaining to do. :winkgrin:
-Bill
markl
10-31-2007, 11:43 AM
I've put Hi-Fi Tuning Fuses in two componets, one that needed 1 fuse, another that required 7! Ironically the difference was greater in the component that required just one. IMHO, the differences that some writers have attributed to them are somewhat over-stated, although they are there. They are similar to the effect that a good replacement power cord has on the sound, but with only about half the effect. If you already have a good power cord, and your component needs just one fuse, and is of reasonably high value (say over $1000), I'd say go for it. $35 is a nice cheap tweak. If it needs 7 fuses, save your dough!
P.S. Yes, as you've read, they are in fact directional. You will need to experiment and this can be a pain.
Hegeman's Ghost
10-31-2007, 11:59 AM
Are they worth the 35.00 or is this just another way to unload your wallett?
Hmmm, Let's see.....each of us has hundreds of feet of plain copper hook up wire in our amps, pre amps, turn tables, CD players, speakers and speaker coils. Usually this hook up wire is 20-22 AWG. Considering this, does it really make any sense that a 1 inch fuse on the AC line coming into one of our components will have any noticeable effect on the sound? IMHO....not a chance in hell!
HG:cool:
markl
10-31-2007, 12:10 PM
.
Fuses were also discussed briefly in this thread:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=129347&highlight=fuses
and a site was given for $12 cryo treated silver fuses, so you can save some money if you just want to try them:
acmeaudiolabs.com
MikeyH
10-31-2007, 06:32 PM
Hmmm, Let's see.....each of us has hundreds of feet of plain copper hook up wire in our amps, pre amps, turn tables, CD players, speakers and speaker coils. Usually this hook up wire is 20-22 AWG. Considering this, does it really make any sense that a 1 inch fuse on the AC line coming into one of our components will have any noticeable effect on the sound? IMHO....not a chance in hell!
HG:cool:
The typical fuse puts your power (or signal) through:
dirty end cap
crimped in inner cap
brass disc with soldered/crimped fuse wire
fuse wire
brass disc
inner cap
end cap
plus the springy things that hold it.
even going to one soldered cap-cap, and cleaning the connectors, is an improvement.
Yes, there's tons of wire in there. But IME it's where those wires meet that the major losses occur.
Metralla
11-01-2007, 12:38 PM
IMHO....not a chance in hell!
Same station, same old song.
I think MikeyH is on target but I will say one thing. In my experience, anything in the signal path is very important for the resulting sonics.
triple
11-01-2007, 05:06 PM
P.S. Yes, as you've read, they are in fact directional. You will need to experiment and this can be a pain.
I use Hifi-tuning fuses and for some reason, I thought the silver fuses were not directional, so I never tried that until last night. And yes, there is a difference. :righton:
So far I found the one in my CD transport to have benefited from reversing. Ain't this a strange hobby... :)
Regards,
Goran
Hegeman's Ghost
11-01-2007, 05:41 PM
The typical fuse puts your power (or signal) through:
dirty end cap
crimped in inner cap
brass disc with soldered/crimped fuse wire
fuse wire
brass disc
inner cap
end cap
plus the springy things that hold it.
even going to one soldered cap-cap, and cleaning the connectors, is an improvement.
Yes, there's tons of wire in there. But IME it's where those wires meet that the major losses occur.
Next time you have one of your amps open, count the number of solder joints, or, as you put it, the places "where those wires meet" .....If what you say is true, it's a wonder that any sound at all comes out!
HG
Hegeman's Ghost
11-01-2007, 05:51 PM
Same station, same old song.
I'm an old man...I guess that's why I sing old songs! And besides, someone has to keep you young whipper-snappers in line....
HG :laugh:
blakep
11-01-2007, 09:03 PM
I'm an old man...I guess that's why I sing old songs! And besides, someone has to keep you young whipper-snappers in line....
HG :laugh:
Even old whippersnappers need to open up their minds and ears on occasion.
I think the key to this is to view the fuse as being an integral part of the power supply. Did I say major? No, I said integral but the effects, in my opinion of course, are still audible. Whether you feel it is worth the $3 or $5 or $35 is up to the individual.
Blackie
11-01-2007, 09:56 PM
I think the key to this is to view the fuse as being an integral part of the power supply. Did I say major? No, I said integral but the effects, in my opinion of course, are still audible. Whether you feel it is worth the $3 or $5 or $35 is up to the individual.
Nicely put!
I've put Hi-Fi Tuning Fuses in two componets, one that needed 1 fuse, another that required 7! Ironically the difference was greater in the component that required just one.
That makes sense, no two components are going to respond equally.
IMHO, the differences that some writers have attributed to them are somewhat over-stated, although they are there...similar to the effect that a good replacement power cord has on the sound, but with only about half the effect
I don't understand, by your own observation you noticed differences in the responses of two seperate components. Who and what components are you specifically talking about.
Even old whippersnappers need to open up their minds and ears on occasion.
I think the key to this is to view the fuse as being an integral part of the power supply. Did I say major? No, I said integral but the effects, in my opinion of course, are still audible. Whether you feel it is worth the $3 or $5 or $35 is up to the individual.
Who was it that said one should open up their mind but not so far that their brains fall out? :)
Given the application how do we know that a $35.00 fuse is better that a $3.00 fuse?
WVK
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